And if there was a death tax people might spend less time trying to acquire every possible earthly possession.

I think that would have a positive impact.

The thought of the government taking private property is scary to me. One day, your kids are living in a nice house, and the next day the Federal Government owns it because your parents were killed in a car accident.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Capitalism is far from perfect. I could post a long lists of problems with both capitalism and democracy. But as Rick has pointed out in this thread, what other system works better?

You have 4% of the world's population producing 25% of the output. What system do you want that would be better and still have that much output? The mere fact that our country allows for people to get fabulously wealthy means we attract the most risk capital and the most talented workers.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Should the government also take immediate control of the persons house, car, possessions and property?

When you look at it like that, letting the heirs keep some of their estate seems more fair than letting the government take the whole thing.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

When people talk about doing this kind of thing, I don't think they have Schaumburg in mind.

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Well, the number is currently set at $5.43 million so they probably aren't talking about the ultra-rich either.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Im not sure I understand the point here. Maybe Im missing something.

Its essentially saying "rich people love it here"

I disagree.

Fair: Every American starts off with ____$ on their 18th b-day and we see who really works the hardest.

Of course not, but that's the kind of thing the truly wealthy use to frighten the middle class into aligning with them instead of with those who are below them on the economic ladder. There is a name for this. It's called the Republican Party.

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Freedom is our Strength.

So what is the correct limit for what you can pass on to your kids?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Nope. People wanting to get rich. Only a select few end up making it big. Let's take Venture Capital firms. You'll note that Europe has essentially zero Venture Capital. These firms will makes dozens of small bets on young firms just hoping one or two make it. These are your EBays, Ubers, PayPal, etc. For ever person or investor in start-ups, there are many many more who fail. But for those who succeed, society wins.

Our country attracts an out sized portion of capital and innovators because the system feeds on itself and allows people to keep the fruits of their efforts. The more you guys whittle away at that system, the poorer we all become in terms of GDP.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

But you guys wanted everyone to start on an equal footing. That means my kids should have the same as the poorest when I die. Or is your definition of rich simply someone who has more than you? It's funny, half this country pays no income tax, and the uber rich pay the vast majority, and still you guys want more.

It's never enough for the government. It will suck up every last dime if you let it. You literally want to take Buffett and Gates' money and give it to the government. I trust those guys to deploy that money more carefully than the Federal Government.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

This country is the way it is because Americans accept it. Every adult aged person in the US has some blame in the income inequality problem, even the poorest ones. If we didn't accept this system, this isn't the system we would have. The rich are just a scapegoat for the lazy.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

How exactly does society win?

RPB, I really need to explain that to you? How many people built businesses on EBay? How many people are employed by those companies? Are you just trolling me?

Do you see the array of good on EBay? You can find almost anything......

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Im not sure about that. Im sure there are people who are blameless.

But as far as the rich being scapegoats, I dont seek to demonize the rich. Its the government and lawmakers but the thing is they are seemingly one in the same.

Id just like to even things out opportunity wise.

I don't know but it doesn't seem like you're really interested in such an idea anyway. You know what you know and you like it the way it is.

Let's just stop pretending that we really value hard work though. If we did, we would reward such and remove all motivations not to work hard.

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Freedom is our Strength.

For what? Becoming a billionaire? The Walton family skews it a little bit but many of them are self made or nearly self made.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You named a few companies and certainly EBay is one that has helped people but there are many businesses that would qualify for what you're saying (built in the U.S. because we are business/start up friendly) that arent necessarily good for the collective.

Is it your opinion that every successful business is good for the people? Im not being a smart ass or trolling, Im just trying to understand your exact thought process.

Any time you all want to truly become men of the people feel free to send your extra parts of the pie to me. I prefer cash but will take a check. If I become rich I promise to not be evil. I will not involve myself in anything politically I will just enjoy the hell out of things I purchase. Thanks.

I'm interested in it. I just want to know what level we are talking about. If a billionaire could only pass on $5 million to each person in their will would that be fine?

There are multiple paths to success. Hard work is the #1 way.

Sometimes you get lucky. Lebron got lucky with his genetics. Others got lucky because they were born a Walton.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I know you've quoted the one study from 2013 about most millionaires being self made many times but I dont accept that as irrefutable fact

And most is a not specific enough. The latest study I found said that 62% are self made. Id like to make that number go above 90.

And opportunity for what? That is dynamic. Whatever the current climate dictates is possible. But it should be even (or as close to even as we can get)


That seems fair to me.

This is the key point. You don't need to pull down the rich. Where we are failing our children is with primary and secondary school education. When CPS is only graduating 50% of its students, and many graduates are not meeting high enough standards. those students are not getting a fair shake.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Why should he be able to do that? We want to motivate hard work. His heirs and legatees should make it on their own just like the crack dealer's kid. Bootstraps, baby!



Right. But we have the ability to even out some of the luck. We should do the best we can. We don't need life to be a crapshoot like the MLB postseason.

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Freedom is our Strength.

If enough people thought that, and subsequently took action to make that happen, it would happen. Things change in this country when large swaths of the population get involved. Not enough people give a shit yet. That may be changing.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

you can dice it up anyway you want. it would take many of those 20 richest people a short time before they were fabulously wealthy again due to just being money smart.

Ok cool. It's a good and necessary discussion.

It is my opinion that most successful business are serving a purpose. Otherwise, they wouldn't be successful. They are meeting a market need. Now many businesses engage in questionable practices or have socially tough to justify business models. You could argue that casinos are very bad for society. Certainly tobacco companies are a net negative.

I hate crony capitalism. That is why I was a Ron Paul fan. I understand this country is much further left than my opinions. I just want folks to realize what an amazing economic system we have. Yes it is very flawed. I am concerned that we have created a permanent bottom due to our poor education system.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

So you aren't going to answer the question then.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree. RPB could always move to Norway or something?

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Elections have consequences.