Use less duct tape.

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Of course there is a chance that a woman could verbally or physically assault a trans person. Trans people deal with that shit on a daily basis whether inside a bathroom or out. But I'm sure you would agree that the situation you describe is far less likely to occur than the alternative. You admitted as much earlier in this thread.

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Don't stadia have family bathrooms?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Well, Chrissy Lee Polis, a trans woman (biological male, presenting as female), was savagely beaten at a Baltimore McDonald's, ostensibly for using the wrong restroom...by two women. Seems to me that the kind of person that would physically assault a transgender person is going to find any reason to do so, whichever bathroom they go into.

But, society is just going to have to think these two guys are A'OK?

I think they would answer "We would love to have the choice of any bathroom, and if you want to use any bathroom then you can too".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

the police are absolutely out of control in this country

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Next time there is a board outing I'm going to pee with you guys.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Here are your arguments:

1. You're wrong about trans people being safer and I can prove it by linking to this story.

2. If we let trans people use the women's bathroom then it will lead to a scourge of fakers doing it to get their rocks off.

Hear are my responses:

1. That's terrible. Also, it proves my point. The more you treat trans people like they wish to be treated the less likely it is they will have the shit beat out of them for no reason.

2. Those people are criminals. Whether they are trans or fakers, if they broke the law they should be punished.

What is with this bathroom obsession? It's like you think there is this legion of perverts waiting in the wings, salivating at the thought that they will one day be able to jerk it in the woman's room without consequence.

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The world is full of perverts.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Good to know.

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1. It doesn't prove your point, because your point was: "If a man dressed as a woman were to use the men's bathroom there is a very real possibility that they could be harmed, either verbally or physically." The implication being that a man dressed as a woman should be able to use the woman's bathroom, because that bathroom is inherently safer for them. In my search for stories of trans people being physically assaulted for using the "wrong" restroom, that is the only one I could find, and it was antithetical to your point that "trans people should be able to use the bathroom they identify with, because that bathroom is safer". Where do you want to shift the goalposts now?

2. ...right, they are, now complete the thought. Isn't it likely that the criminalization of using the "wrong" bathroom now has created a boundary that only the perviest of perverts are willing to attempt to cross, as with these two jamokes (and the others like them)? Is it not also likely that, were that boundary to be removed, the heretofore dissuaded perverts would be more willing, even able to act on their perverted desires vis a vis women's bathroom and locker room facilities, knowing they are ultimately protected from prosecution by a claim of "gender dysphoric feelings"?



Uhm...it's a thread about gender identity, biological sex, and which governs or should govern bathroom usage?



Like thinking there are legions of drunken men salivating to get in one last good beating on a man dressed as a woman in the bathroom before they can escape to the safety of the ladies' facilities? Also, have you been on the Internet?

Being trans gendered doesn't excuse someone (trans or not) from jerking off or harassing people in a bathroom. It's a crime and always will be. Will pervs be more emboldened to do it and attempt to defend themselves by saying they are trans gendered when caught? Probably. People have said dumber shit in order to get out of trouble.

The arguments you make against a trans person's ability to use a bathroom have nothing to do with trans people. We can't allow trans people to use a bathroom because then perverts will pretend to be trans. We can't allow trans people to use a bathroom because it will make women and children uncomfortable.

It's not a trans person's fault that some pervert puts on a wig and jizzes in a Lady Footlocker bathroom. It's not a trans person's fault that women and children might be uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with them. The harms you are describing are not caused by trans people but rather people's reactions to trans people.

We don't have to like them, but the more we begin to view a trans person as an actual person the more likely we are to be comfortable sharing the same space as them. What a concept!

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Fixed.



Hey! Hey! Woo Boy, Weeeeeee

Spiral, part of the problem I guess is that so called normal people feel denied or ignored their feelings on the matter. You are going very strong in your belief and have dismissed every point anyone tries to make with regard to the topical bathroom. I really have not see many deny or degrade trains folks. You give zero sensitivity to the other side of the coin.

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Elections have consequences.

my pants are pretty full, as is

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Stop saying that people are arguing to disallow trans people from using the bathroom. They have a bathroom, the one that corresponds with their biological sex, they don't want to use it, and instead want special treatment to use whichever one they want. The treatment is "special" because not every person in society (cis-gendered) will be afforded this treatment, and can actually be charged with a crime for doing what the special treatment would protect. This isn't an issue of "have" vs. "have not", this is "already have, but want the ability to choose the other, as well".



We do that! Who isn't doing that? What about asking them to use the bathroom that corresponds with their biological sex demonstrably isn't "viewing a trans person as an actual person"? Because they would rather do something different? I mean, break it down logically: if you want society to treat transsexuals as "actual people", and other "actual people" get asked to use the bathroom that corresponds with their biological sex, and do it without a fuss...what exactly is the problem with asking the same of transsexuals?



I view women of the female sex as "actual people", same as I do transsexuals, I'm still not comfortable exposing my genitals and urinating and defecating in their (biologically female humans) immediate presence, nor am I comfortable with them (biologically female humans) doing the same in my immediate presence. Is there something wrong with that, too?

I get it. I understand why women would feel uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a 6'3'' person wearing heels and a wig. You don't see that kind of stuff every day so you're going to feel weird about it. Except, tied to that feeling of weirdness is a latent hostility. That hostility doesn't exist in every person but it exists in enough of the general population to be noticeable.

It's likely that my feeling on the matter is colored by my personal experience, but I've witnessed that hostility first hand. I haven't seen anyone shove or scream at these people, but they get looks and murmurs every place they go. I've heard people I respect say horrible shit about these people just because of the way they look.

So while I can understand why people feel uncomfortable sharing space with trans people, I just don't sympathize with the reasoning behind that discomfort.

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Fair enough.

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Elections have consequences.

Spiral, does the trans boy in high school get to shower with the girls because behind his penis is a female wanting to get out?

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

You act as if they all look great and would be happy if things were rearranged. I don't feel that's the case.

On its own, its kinda weird that high school kids shower together

Do high schools really still shower together?

Didn't in my day (mid-2000's). Shower facilities were open before and after gym class, but nobody used them (at least on the "male" side). For baseball practice, though, the communal showers were turned on, but the lights were always off--for morning practice, at least--nobody on the roster used the showers after games or practice, we just wanted to go home.

How did you get that out of my post above?

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How else would you shower after a game? I would have loved my own personal bathroom in high school, but the Ressurectionist fathers were too cheap to provide those for us.

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Freedom is our Strength.

SICP was possibly the worst shower system for teenagers. No dividers. No wall mounted nozzles. No, Ignatius had two or three metal poles in the middle of the room with nozzles around the pole. It was literally a circle of nudity.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

same with Harry D Jacobs High School back in the day. and I've spoken of the one locker room shitter with no dividers at all. just a toilet next to a urinal.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I'm not shy when it comes to doing my business, but no way I can take a dump in the middle of the room. There's this great little hamburger stand in Lima, Ohio called Kewpie's. (I think there's one in Racine, WI, too.) It's where Dave Thomas stole most of the ideas he used for Wendy's. Anyway, the shitter at the Lima Kewpie's has no fucking door. If you've ever eaten at Kewpie's you will understand what a problem that can be.

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Freedom is our Strength.