I thought you might use Datsyuk but 59 yr old Mike Bossy? Please tell me this is a bit

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

I'm reducing to absurdity, yes, obviously, but you have to concede that Toews is not the player he used to be, and that sucks a lot. No less an authority on creativity in hockey than Red Army Team alumnus Igor Larionov singled out Toews as one of the most dynamic offensive players in North America: I think he mentioned Toews, Kane, and Gaudreau by name. Not even Crosby, I don't believe. Do you think Toews has demonstrated offensive instincts on the level of Patrick Kane and Johnny Gaudreau? I sure don't. It's been a longer way down than some people would care to admit. There's still a lot of things he can do well, but providing scoring commensurate with a #1 center doesn't appear to be one of them anymore. As far as top centers go, he'll be behind McDavid, Draisaitl, Tavares, Malkin, Stamkos, Johnson, Kuznetzov, Larkin, on and on. He's NHL old.

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Do you think its eroding skills or not having skilled wingers on his line? I would argue that a Hossa/Ladd/Panik/Shaw combo does not exactly free him up for scoring chances

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

What I think is that it's some real bullshit to ask lesser players what they're doing to help the guy making ten and a half million bucks and not what Toews is doing to help them. Have you seen some of the tomato cans who have racked up points alongside Crosby or Getzlaf over the years? What the hell is a "Patrick Maroon"? Yes, it sucks to go from having Brandon Saad and Patrick Sharp on your line to Viktor Tikhonov and Bryan Bickell, but you can't shirk the whole thing off on them. As much as we roll our eyes at Andrew Shaw on the first line, he's precisely the kind of player who should have been elevated beyond his normal expectations. Stan furnished Toews with Andrew Ladd, who was a first-liner in Winnipeg but apparently not one here, at great expense. If you're asking "how do we make our best player look good?", you've been forced to ask the wrong question. If you want to talk about an elite player being saddled with crap, talk about Michal Handzus centering Patrick Kane. Blaming Panik and Shaw for Toews's drop is rather churlish to me.

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But don't you think its coincidence that Kane had his best year with a #2 C and Panarin to deflect pressure off him?

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

There were other factors. First of all, Kane was probably off the coke and booze -- he tore up the league in 2013 last time shit got too real and he had to clean up. Panarin definitely facilitated Kane's scoring but Kane reciprocated, because I don't think Panarin would have had the season he had with lesser linemates.

Don't forget, Kane was scoring near a 100-point pace last year with Brad Richards centering, and even circa-2015 Brad Richards was still an upgrade over a fork-stuck Handzus, a miscast Shaw, and oh my god, did he ever have to play on a line with the remains of Brendan Morrison? I hope not. Nonetheless, Kane has made bad linemates look good. The 2013 championship speaks to that. With the math against us, Toews may have to do the same. If he can't, maybe he's just a checking-line center now.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

And they had those, why, pray tell?

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1. Bad contract to Bickell that couldn't be moved
2. Paying for superstar players; as much as you want to complain about how Toews' production is not worth the money he is getting, he was worth that much that when he signed his contract.
3. Having a great minor league system produced players that contributed to 1-2 Cups but had to be traded when it came time to be paid market value

I just like to point out that Duncan Keith is making 5.538/yr, wayyyy under his market value. Just imagine if Keith hadn't signed a 13yr contract in 2009...


Toews has played in at least 75 games in a season 6 times

2008-09: 82gms, 34g, 35a
2009-10: 76gms, 25g, 43a
2010-11: 80gms, 32g, 44a
2013-14: 76gms, 28g, 40a
2014-15: 81gms, 28g, 38a
2015-16: 80gms, 28g, 30a

28 goals this season is within 6 of his career high, not a steep dropoff, but his assist totals were his lowest ever. Who is consistently his top linemate? Marian Hossa, who's goal totals in the last three seasons have gone from 30 to 22 to 13, a significant drop in production. Without an offensive presence on the top line, Toews is the focus of the opposing team's defense because they don't respect his linemates' ability to score. Put an offensive threat on that line and I think you see Toews' production return to normal.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

This is a great post, and really, the bones of it could be used as an argument against excuse-making for a supposedly great player in any sport. The same basic thought underlies my ideas on the concept of "run support". Good pitchers have winning records. If you don't have a winning record, it's not because of "a lack of run support", it's because you're not a good pitcher. Anyway, I'll let you get back to hockey, but I couldn't agree more with this thought.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Which was apparent to anyone who watched the Hawks most of the year.

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Aw geez. Seacrest is red now.

Toews' upside is 87 points but he will probably average around 75. Scoring almost 30 goals a year is good offensive production for him. If he had better line mates his assists would probably be higher.

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Same sex, different habits - who gives a fucking shit
This won't make the species unfurl

He's the highest-paid player in the entire league. More than Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Stamkos (for now), Kopitar, Getzlaf, Tavares, Zetterberg, and even internet darling Jamie Benn. He needs to break 70 points a year; I do not think that is asking too much. 54th in scoring, trailing such luminaries as Tyler Toffoli, Mike Hoffman, Jussi Jokinen, Roman Josi (a defenseman), and Mats Zuccarello, names the average Hawks fan couldn't even place with a team, is unacceptable, and I don't know why people won't say so.

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I agree with all of this, but I still feel the real problem is on the defensive side of things.
they allowed more goals this year compared to last year. That's equally if not more important that points for Toews. In this St. Louis, series, they were completely knocked off their game and struggled to move the puck out of the zone...increased turnovers....Less of this likely increases points for Toews.

I'm not making excuses for Toews.....I agree with you that the highest paid player on the team who is your captain needs to elevate others. I just saw a far drop in the defense this year. Fewer goals allowed would be just as good as more pts from the center.

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Why wont people say so? Toews has as many Stanley Cup championships as everyone else on your list combined.
2 for Kopitar, 1 for Zetterberg.

1 each for Crosby, Malkin, and Getzlaf.

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Same sex, different habits - who gives a fucking shit
This won't make the species unfurl

Crap. Well then Toews and his 3 cups just sucks.

Yeah but he has three and they don't so fuck them.
Plus Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin are supposed to be the "big three" and Toews has won more than they have.

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Same sex, different habits - who gives a fucking shit
This won't make the species unfurl

Yes, Toews won three Cups, and if you'd like him to win a fourth, he has to step it up.

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Not necessarily. The Hawks need a 4th d-man badly and for Marko Dano to step up. Also, Both Toews and Kane need to be more visible in the playoffs. One goal between them is not going to cut it.

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Same sex, different habits - who gives a fucking shit
This won't make the species unfurl

Is this a joke? Dano went to Winnipeg with our 1st for two months of Ladd.

And yes necessarily. .725/gm isn't gonna get it done for a #1C.

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Incidentally, I was thinking about how it would be nice to flip Kruger and keep Shaw, but our replacement for Kruger, Philip Danault, was sent to Montreal for two months of Weise and Fleischmann, who were each healthy scratches in the playoffs.

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We have given up a lot of picks and guys like Dano and Danault with not much to show. yes, obviously we've won 3 cups, but Bowman has missed on a lot of deals.

I'm still miffed on the Sharp trade. We really got nothing back in terms of players and we're not seeing much cap relief.

Bowman has a lot of work to do this offseason, while #19 has to get his groove back.

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Crosby makes 8.7 mil, Malkin 9.5, Getzlaf 8.25, and Ovi 9.5.

Toews is at 10.5

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Ok, enough with the comparisons of salary...

Crosby signed his contract in June 2012
Malkin signed his in June 2013
Getzlaf signed his in March 2013
Ovechkin signed his in January 2008

Toews signed his in July 2014.

Contract (in terms of per annual salary) for elite players have gone up. When Stamkos signs his $11m yer/sal, then Toews won't be the highest paid anymore.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

They pay the top 9 guys top dollar. No room for anything else. No room to keep Shaw.

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Unfortunately yes. Best hope is trade Shaw for a #1 or #2 pick. Perhaps package Bickell with Shaw and take back a veteran defenseman making $2-3 mil per year; not the best return for Shaw, but getting rid of Bickell's contract is the key.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

Getting rid of Bickell's contract is absolutely key, but I'm thinking even Shaw at $2M is a bit much to add in Bickell's $4M. It would take a younger cheaper good player of value to pair with Bickell's disaster of a contract.

We're going to lose something of value this off-season. there's just no other way.

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No one will take Bickells contract.

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