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That's not "tape" ... that's a photo with all the clarity of the Zapruder film.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Oh, I don't think anti-Sox has anything to do with how the incident was covered. It's a pro-Ryan bias. He's like Paul Bunyan. The casual fan thinks he was a lot better pitcher than he actually was too.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Plenty to argue about in the greatness or lack thereof of Ryan's career. I would agree that generally he is over rated. But he was really good for a long time. And in sports longevity counts, see Ripken. I underlined a few stats that I didn't know but think are important as to his value.

"Ryan played in more seasons (27) than any other player in modern (since 1900) major league history. Ryan ranks first all-time in strikeouts (5,714), fewest hits allowed per nine innings (6.56), and no-hitters (7). He is also fifth in innings pitched (5,386), second in games started (773), seventh in shutouts (61) and is tied for 14th in wins (324). Opposing hitters hit only .204 against Ryan during his career, though they had a .309 on-base percentage against him. He also limited hitters to a .298 slugging percentage.[1] Ryan had 15 or more strikeouts in a game 26 times, second only to Randy Johnson, who had 28. Ryan's lengthy career spanned generations as he struck out seven pairs of fathers and sons (for example, Bobby Bonds and Barry Bonds), another major league record.[37] Ryan also played during the administrations of seven U.S. Presidents – Lyndon B. Johnson, Richard M. Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and Bill Clinton—equaling a 20th-century record that had been set by Jim Kaat."

Ryan also ranks high on the list for four "negative" records; he ranks first all-time in walks allowed (2,795), first in wild pitches (277), third in losses (292—most in the post-1920 live-ball era), and ninth in hit batters (158).[1] Ryan is also one of two pitchers in MLB history to give up ten grand slam home runs, including one to Dann Howitt, the next-to-last batter Ryan faced in his career.
Nolan Ryan's signature

Bill James focuses on this dichotomy between Ryan's positive and negative statistics. While ranking him as the 24th best pitcher of all time, he notes, "Ryan has been retired almost ten years [in 2001], in another ten perhaps we will begin to get a little bit of perspective on him. Ryan's log of spectacular accomplishments is as thick as Bill Clinton's little black book; his list of flaws and failures is lengthy but dry, and will never make for good reading."[38]

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Hawaii (fuck) You

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Several here share my thoughts on this and yet I am the one you call out.

Gee who would have thought that.

Go fuck yourself.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Ryan was a special guy who did special things. But overall there are many less heralded guys who were better pitchers. You mention Jim Kaat above. I would consider him just one of them.

There are good comparisons to Ryan in horse racing. For example, a trotter named Arndon in the 80s was a lot like Ryan. You can look him up. At the time he was the fastest trotter I had ever seen. He just wasn't a great horse. He made mistakes and lost when you would expect him to win. But he had memorable moments, shit that took your breath away. I remember Arndon, but there are better horses that didn't make such an impression. That's like Ryan.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Bought that book back in 3rd or 4th grade. Probably have it in a box someplace. Circa 1975.

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have a blessed day

It's why he never won a Cy Young award. Flashes of pure greatness following by a game or two with 5-6 walks and average performances.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Happy new year

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

And appeared in exactly one World Series where he was a bit player.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

he couldn't hold Frank Viola's jock strap

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to invoke the jock strap language, but I'd agree that Viola was a better pitcher. But there were many guys that were better and who are largely forgotten. How about John Candelaria?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

some of the ryan criticism gets absurd. he was no tom seaver, but he wan't john candelaria either.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Cadelaria was better. He had a better career WHIP, a similar ERA, and a winning percentage that was 70 points higher over many, many seasons.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Try and keep up old man.

Leash and Brick tell me I'm wrong all the time.

But Robin Ventura did make Nolan Ryan tap out.

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So anyway, where in the video does it clearly show Ventura choking Ryan?

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Be wrong less.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Doesn't exist. Mostly because DID. NOT. HAPPEN.

Similar to the White Sox being 1994 World Series champions. White Sox fans have a rabid imagination.

It's a very short video and it explicitly stops the action frame by frame to illustrate. Just click it and play it.

It seems many people just want to maintain their Bunyanesque thoughts regarding Ryan.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, Arndon got in some good blows on Camfella after Camfella charged him for taking a shit in his feedbag.

I don't give a damn about "many people" ... keep that crap for the idiot crowd. I don't particularly care who 'won' the fight, and anyone that does probably needs some doctoring they're not currently receiving, or at least not enough of it.

The narrative, as I've understood it since that day, was always "down goes Ventura, down goes Ventura" ... you mentioned Ryan getting choked by Ventura, and I thought that was an interesting note I hadn't seen before.

I (specifically) asked you (specifically) - not 'many people' - where the video clearly shows it. While it very well may, I couldn't locate it, and I figured that if it clearly showed it then it wouldn't be some damnable struggle for you to help me locate precisely where it clearly showed it in the video. If I have to search the video for, what, three fuzzy frames where something possibly maybe could be happening, that's pretty far from 'clear'.

So we'll dispense with the baloney and say obviously it's not "clearly" showing anything. It may look like it if you want it to, but it's not clear. After a cursory internet search earlier, the closest thing I could find aside from the CBS goof I'm guessing you borrowed the picture from was someone saying that Ventura bearhugged Ryan from behind and they tumbled to the ground where Ventura was on top of Ryan which, while an interesting point I didn't know before, doesn't suggest Ryan was choked by Ventura, clearly or otherwise.

So ... whatever.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I'm not sure why youre reluctant to click on the video. It's all laid out for you in there. I didn't photoshop the screencap I'm using as an avatar.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

(a) I said I watched the video and could not find it. You made the statement; it's entirely on you to back it up.

(b) I never said either 'photoshop' or 'screencap' at any point.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

See you in a week.

I'm not sure how that could be if you really watched it. It's clear as day between :53 and :57.



I didn't say you did. I'm just pointing out that the picture shows Ventura choking that motherfucker senseless and it's straight from the video.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Candelaria had one good year. Ryan was top five in Cy Young 6 times. Stop being silly. Candelaria was pitching 190 innings when ryan was pitching 300 innings.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest