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 Post subject: Well Said By The Bern
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:16 am 
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Closing thoughts in his Rolling Stone interview with Tim Dickinson:

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The American people are prepared to support real change. The difficulty that we have is not just the objective crises that we face—the disappearing middle class, income and wealth inequality, crumbling infrastructure, lack of universal health care and paid family and medical leave—the whole list of those things. That's not the major problem. The major problem is that we have an establishment that works 24 hours a day, seven days a week, led by a corporate media, which tries to condition the American people not to believe that we can accomplish those goals—or to even consider that those goals can be part of what American society is about.

You might think that there would be a lot of discussion about why the United States is the only major country on Earth not to provide health care to all people. People might say, "Look at the French system: It stinks, it's terrible. The Canadian system is terrible; that's why we don't want to do it." But you don't have that discussion. Why is it that the United States, which spends far more per capita on health care than other nations, why don't we have a national health care system? Have you seen that debate once in your lifetime? On television?...

Have you seen a debate coming on where a guy says, "Look, I think the British system is good, and it costs about one third of the American system"? And some American guy comes on and says, "No, I think it's a terrible system!" and argues it out about why our system is better. Let's have that debate! There's two sides to every story. You don't see that debate.

And my guess is that the majority of the American people do not even know that we are the only major country on Earth without a national health care system. They don't know that we're the only major country without guaranteed paid family and medical leave. No one tells them that you've got 20 people owning more wealth than the bottom half of America, 150 million people. They don't know that. Somehow CBS doesn't have that special. I don't know why.

You see, that's what the campaign is about. Our major success so far is in laying out a broad progressive agenda, and forcing ourselves—the media doesn't want to hear what I have to say. Do you know how many endorsements we have gotten from major media in this country? [Holds up hand forming a zero] They're much more interested in Trump. For a whole variety of reasons. And if he attacks Hillary Clinton, calls her a bad name, that becomes a major story. If I talk about the disappearing middle class? Not exactly what CNN is interested in hearing, right? OK.

But what we have managed to do in this campaign is, they can't avoid somebody [like me]. Tonight, we were on CNN—I spoke for a while, for seven minutes. They gotta put us on a little bit. And suddenly people are hearing things they never heard before. And that's changing consciousness. So what we have got to do is to redefine who we can be as a nation. In a sense, what we are entitled to. What rights we are entitled to as humans. That's the struggle. And we're making a little bit of progress
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Saw this through www.fair.org.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:19 am 
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Love the guy ....best politician in my lifetime, genuinely a good guy and very smart..I knew that bitch Trump would pussy out n not debate him.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:27 am 
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Oh come on. He has no desire to have an honest discussion about his ideas. That is why he glosses over everything potentially negative about his plans. He could easily have started mentioning them in here but he once again chose not to.

Another self serving interview by him to try and create a legacy after years of not doing much of anything.

I'd look like a good guy too if I was selling a platform of all these great things for people without mentioning the costs.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:28 am 
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bernie behind in popular vote by estimates i've seen 13 mil to 10 mil.... what leg does he have to stand on? I agree the whole superdelgate thing is pretty stupid.... but wouldnt he being the nominee be more unfair to hillary since she clearly won the popular vote? why is this point not being thrown back at sanders by hillary camp?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:29 am 
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billypootons wrote:
bernie behind in popular vote by estimates i've seen 13 mil to 10 mil.... what leg does he have to stand on? I agree the whole superdelgate thing is pretty stupid.... but wouldnt he being the nominee be more unfair to hillary since she clearly won the popular vote? why is this point not being thrown back at sanders by hillary camp?






Who would be ahead if every American could vote one time from their phone?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:30 am 
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Meanwhile: https://theintercept.com/2016/05/27/hil ... on-in-law/

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:31 am 
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312player wrote:
Love the guy ....best politician in my lifetime, genuinely a good guy and very smart..I knew that bitch Trump would pussy out n not debate him.


He is not genuinely a good guy

Like his policies if you must but don't buy into any cult of personality

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:32 am 
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312player wrote:
billypootons wrote:
bernie behind in popular vote by estimates i've seen 13 mil to 10 mil.... what leg does he have to stand on? I agree the whole superdelgate thing is pretty stupid.... but wouldnt he being the nominee be more unfair to hillary since she clearly won the popular vote? why is this point not being thrown back at sanders by hillary camp?






Who would be ahead if every American could vote one time from their phone?
so is your point bernie voters are too dumb or dont care enough about voting for bernie that they cant register to vote in their primary?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:34 am 
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My point is The voting process is horseshit.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:36 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
312player wrote:
Love the guy ....best politician in my lifetime, genuinely a good guy and very smart..I knew that bitch Trump would pussy out n not debate him.


He is not genuinely a good guy

Like his policies if you must but don't buy into any cult of personality






Disagree... I'm not interested in debating anything but I'll read a bullet point post from you on why he's not a good guy..

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:38 am 
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Yes, we know Trump and Sanders have started a revolution in American presidential politics by holding an outsider's populist agenda centered around the crisis facing the American middle class. I think we've been talking about it for about a calendar year now, glad Bernie is on the train.

The USA has never had paid sick leave or universal healthcare while the UK founded the NHS in '48 and France's fifth republic didn't exist until '58. The European welfare state model predates the middle class crisis by half a century, and for much of that time things were going quite well for the American middle class. Bernie says that by bringing that model over to the USA the middle class will prosper, and he's right. But Trump says that globalism has been a raw deal for most Americans, and he's right too. It seems certain that only one of the two will be receiving a major party endorsement in the Nov. elections, and I just wish they'd stop alienating their supporters from the other.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:41 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Oh come on. He has no desire to have an honest discussion about his ideas. That is why he glosses over everything potentially negative about his plans. He could easily have started mentioning them in here but he once again chose not to.

Another self serving interview by him to try and create a legacy after years of not doing much of anything.

I'd look like a good guy too if I was selling a platform of all these great things for people without mentioning the costs.


But your ok with Drumpf spending trillions more on the military? Or, we can replace Drumpf with Hillary.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:42 am 
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Sir Loin Of Beef wrote:
But your ok with Drumpf spending trillions more on the military? Or, we can replace Drumpf with Hillary.
My sincere hope is that Hillary is Obama 2.0.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:48 am 
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billypootons wrote:
312player wrote:
billypootons wrote:
bernie behind in popular vote by estimates i've seen 13 mil to 10 mil.... what leg does he have to stand on? I agree the whole superdelgate thing is pretty stupid.... but wouldnt he being the nominee be more unfair to hillary since she clearly won the popular vote? why is this point not being thrown back at sanders by hillary camp?






Who would be ahead if every American could vote one time from their phone?
so is your point bernie voters are too dumb or dont care enough about voting for bernie that they cant register to vote in their primary?


No. I truly believe that most people do not vote because the corporate media pounds the election cycle on TV so much that most people get tired of "this shit" and refuse to vote.
I'm sure some people don't vote because they feel they are not "well informed" (Scott Adams).
Some do not vote because doing so adds their name to the jury lists.
Some vote for third party candidates (me).

That is my belief.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:53 am 
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Bernie Sanders is winning the hypothetical popular vote by a huge margin.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:08 am 
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America wrote:
But Trump says that globalism has been a raw deal for most Americans, and he's right too.

I've already seen Hillary surrogates suggesting that opposing free trade means you hate the "people of color" who work for pennies a day. And who can forget this spicy little number?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:20 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Sir Loin Of Beef wrote:
But your ok with Drumpf spending trillions more on the military? Or, we can replace Drumpf with Hillary.
My sincere hope is that Hillary is Obama 2.0.


That wouldn't help.

Barack has his own kill list.
Drones fly into sovereign territory and inflict terrorism on their people.
Our troops are now into Iraq for the third time.
Our troops are also still in Afghanistan.
Gitmo is still open and it's prisoners still have not been charged with a crime (I might be wrong).
Mission creep is happening in Syria.
Even though it is difficult to find our Government is adding more and more bases in Africa. As far as can be research, the US has 800 bases around the world, more than every country combined.
Here at home, Barack governed his first term by siding with the Republicans at every turn. Only when he had nothing to lose (in his second term) that he decided to talk tough.

In short, Barack is a moderate conservative who has changed zero policies from previous administrations.

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Last edited by Sir Loin Of Beef on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:25 am 
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So you think Obama was a bad President?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:29 am 
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Obama did about as well as he could, more or less. While he's no leftist, I think the "he's a secret conservative" stuff is a little unfair, because he was made to work with an opposition party that largely despised him for being black. Beneath the identity, he's a boring consensus liberal who did some good liberal-consensus stuff. We're not all dead, which is a plus. He probably wasn't a transformative president in the sense that Lincoln or Roosevelt or Johnson or even Reagan was, but he kept the country moving.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:37 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So you think Obama was a bad President?


He missed the opportunity to take dramatic action when the big banks where at his mercy. We have merely kicked the can on too big to fail, the environment, Iraq/Iran, infrastructure and deficits. The economy is "better" but most gains went to the top. History will be the judge on if he was "good" or not.

It will depend on others to find solutions the the problems he inherited, but failed to find more than patch work temporary solutions for. Even his signature legislation is a messy bridge to something else.

He was not his insane opposition, but he could not find a way to nullify their power.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:23 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Obama did about as well as he could, more or less. While he's no leftist, I think the "he's a secret conservative" stuff is a little unfair, because he was made to work with an opposition party that largely despised him for being black. Beneath the identity, he's a boring consensus liberal who did some good liberal-consensus stuff. We're not all dead, which is a plus. He probably wasn't a transformative president in the sense that Lincoln or Roosevelt or Johnson or even Reagan was, but he kept the country moving.



That is lazy. He is hated because he is a Democrat. They/we hate Hillary as much if not more.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:36 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Obama did about as well as he could, more or less. While he's no leftist, I think the "he's a secret conservative" stuff is a little unfair, because he was made to work with an opposition party that largely despised him for being black. Beneath the identity, he's a boring consensus liberal who did some good liberal-consensus stuff. We're not all dead, which is a plus. He probably wasn't a transformative president in the sense that Lincoln or Roosevelt or Johnson or even Reagan was, but he kept the country moving.



That is lazy. He is hated because he is a Democrat. They/we hate Hillary as much if not more.


I really think we can thank Reagan & guys like Roger Ailes for this. They picked a side, played the race & gender cards often and well, which got us to this point. Nothing like starting a presidential campaign off with a states' rights speech in Philadelphia, MS or trying to make Willie Horton the campaign face of the Democratic party.

Frankly I think Republican men more often than not are frightened by smart and/or powerful women. And the "leadership" plays on it and gives us women like the Trump surrogates.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:47 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So you think Obama was a bad President?


He missed the opportunity to take dramatic action when the big banks where at his mercy. We have merely kicked the can on too big to fail, the environment, Iraq/Iran, infrastructure and deficits. The economy is "better" but most gains went to the top. History will be the judge on if he was "good" or not.

It will depend on others to find solutions the the problems he inherited, but failed to find more than patch work temporary solutions for. Even his signature legislation is a messy bridge to something else.

He was not his insane opposition, but he could not find a way to nullify their power.


But it must always be noted that he had no effective relationship with Congress that started with McConnell's meeting on Inauguration night. Then Al Franken's election was held in abeyance as long as possible to maintain the filibuster power of the Rs that continued when Kennedy died and Lieberman accepted his payoff. I don't think that there was really anything short of granting the Senate republicans control over the federal government that was going to permit anything close to modest financial reform beyond the toothless Dodd-Frank.

I don't think it helped that the heavily promoted media/public opinion was that he didn't have the political capital...or that he fully believed that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:03 pm 
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I'd give Obama a C+ ....Bush was an F minus and I Believe Mccain-Palin would be a F-minus..if Obama could run for a third term I'd vote for him..he's stabilized and getting shit done...2 terms makes no sense for a true democracy.. But we don't have that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:22 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So you think Obama was a bad President?


Yes.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:23 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So you think Obama was a bad President?


He missed the opportunity to take dramatic action when the big banks where at his mercy. We have merely kicked the can on too big to fail, the environment, Iraq/Iran, infrastructure and deficits. The economy is "better" but most gains went to the top. History will be the judge on if he was "good" or not.

It will depend on others to find solutions the the problems he inherited, but failed to find more than patch work temporary solutions for. Even his signature legislation is a messy bridge to something else.

He was not his insane opposition, but he could not find a way to nullify their power.


Also, he never went after W and company's crimes but the Republicans went after Obama with every crack-brained "misdeed" they could find.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:24 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Frankly I think Republican men more often than not are frightened by smart and/or powerful women. And the "leadership" plays on it and gives us women like the Trump surrogates.


What does Correct The Record pay for "you're just afraid of a strong woman" posts?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:31 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
But it must always be noted that he had no effective relationship with Congress that started with McConnell's meeting on Inauguration night. Then Al Franken's election was held in abeyance as long as possible to maintain the filibuster power of the Rs that continued when Kennedy died and Lieberman accepted his payoff. I don't think that there was really anything short of granting the Senate republicans control over the federal government that was going to permit anything close to modest financial reform beyond the toothless Dodd-Frank.

I don't think it helped that the heavily promoted media/public opinion was that he didn't have the political capital...or that he fully believed that.


Perhaps it's just a different era, but past Presidents would have found a way to strong arm legislation. Civil Rights would always be filibustered, but LBJ found weaknesses and exploited them to get it passed.

Obama did have incredible obstruction, but he also did not find solutions around it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:31 pm 
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Sir Loin Of Beef wrote:
Also, he never went after W and company's crimes but the Republicans went after Obama with every crack-brained "misdeed" they could find.


It's funny I was just reading about Teddy Roosevelt & the Northern Securities case. His legacy as a trust buster/populist really isn't helped by the fact that he let JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Harriman and others completely off the hook for their individual and direct involvement in a massive criminal conspiracy. A full century later and the general misconception remains that TR was out for the common man and equal justice under the law, even for the wealthy.

Obama (rightly) won't get that break.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:32 pm 
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Sir Loin Of Beef wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
So you think Obama was a bad President?


Yes.
Then we disagree.

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