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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:36 am 
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It would be interesting to see the Sox do what America says but it would be totally out of character.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:40 am 
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Cashman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Why are failures allocated to Williams and all successes to Hahn?



Hahn is the numbers guy, and a puppet for Kenny.

Dunn and LaRoche were players looked upon favorably by "numbers guys". Samardzija was a numbers darling (FIP) as well.

Those moves were largely attributed to Kenny because they failed.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:41 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
How did Kenny Williams build the White Sox organization after 2005? Is the stay mediocre mandate coming all the way from the top?

I'm a Cubs fan, but it's always nice to have a second team to watch in the playoffs. Would love to see Cubs/White Sox World Series before I die.



Gimmicks after 2006. I believe 2007 was, lets acquire bullpen guys who throw 100 mph.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:41 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Why are failures allocated to Williams and all successes to Hahn?



Hahn is the numbers guy, and a puppet for Kenny.

Dunn and LaRoche were players looked upon favorably by "numbers guys". Samardzija was a numbers darling (FIP) as well.

Those moves were largely attributed to Kenny because they failed.



Kenny always thinks they are 1 player away.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:47 am 
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2008 was a fine team.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:47 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Why are failures allocated to Williams and all successes to Hahn?



Hahn is the numbers guy, and a puppet for Kenny.

Dunn and LaRoche were players looked upon favorably by "numbers guys". Samardzija was a numbers darling (FIP) as well.

Those moves were largely attributed to Kenny because they failed.

Dunn and LaRoche were at the end if their careers. The didn't fail for any other reasons than that.

Samardzija seemed to be a Don Cooper issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:48 am 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
It would be interesting to see the Sox do what America says but it would be totally out of character.

They never will. So much ego is built into the negotiation of those deals that the Sox value them more than anybody else in baseball, and those three contracts to Q, Sale and Eaton are amongst the most valued in baseball.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:49 am 
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I'm not sure if it's possible to get enough value back for Sale.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:51 am 
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IMU wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Why are failures allocated to Williams and all successes to Hahn?



Hahn is the numbers guy, and a puppet for Kenny.

Dunn and LaRoche were players looked upon favorably by "numbers guys". Samardzija was a numbers darling (FIP) as well.

Those moves were largely attributed to Kenny because they failed.

Dunn and LaRoche were at the end if their careers. The didn't fail for any other reasons than that.

Samardzija seemed to be a Don Cooper issue.

So it's Kenny's fault?


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:51 am 
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It really doesn't matter until the all time great but past his prime owner sells the team. That is what will return this team back to a championship franchise.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:52 am 
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America wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
It would be interesting to see the Sox do what America says but it would be totally out of character.

They never will. So much ego is built into the negotiation of those deals that the Sox value them more than anybody else in baseball, and those three contracts to Q, Sale and Eaton are amongst the most valued in baseball.



Sale has the most team friendly contract in baseball. It's really not even close.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:54 am 
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Kenny won a WS with 1 hand tied behind his back. I prefer having Kenny run things just like I prefer Paxson over Gar.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:56 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
So it's Kenny's fault?

I think it is tough to judge Rick Hahn because Kenny Williams still makes all final decisions.

Any mistakes that are made with the Cubs organization would fall on Theo. He is still hands on with all important personnel decisions.

Rick and Jed would be the guys handling contract negotiations and day-to-day handling of scouting, etc.
Nas wrote:
Kenny won a WS with 1 hand tied behind his back. I prefer having Kenny run things just like I prefer Paxson over Gar.

Racist.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:59 am 
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Nas wrote:
I'm not sure if it's possible to get enough value back for Sale.

Swihart
Moncada
Benintendi
Brock Holt (just a player I've always liked)
and any 2 Red Sox farm arms

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Shit, I'd do it for less than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:05 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
So it's Kenny's fault?

I think it is tough to judge Rick Hahn because Kenny Williams still makes all final decisions.

Any mistakes that are made with the Cubs organization would fall on Theo. He is still hands on with all important personnel decisions.

Rick and Jed would be the guys handling contract negotiations and day-to-day handling of scouting, etc.
Nas wrote:
Kenny won a WS with 1 hand tied behind his back. I prefer having Kenny run things just like I prefer Paxson over Gar.

Racist.

Hahn is an snake. He's developed into this folk hero being unfairly shackled by Kenny Williams. WTF?

He wasn't some outsider unfamiliar with the Sox organization. Hahn knew how the Sox functioned. He turned down the opportunity to interview for other GM positions for the Sox job.

His fingerprints are all over this shit just as much as Kenny.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:06 pm 
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America wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm not sure if it's possible to get enough value back for Sale.

Swihart
Moncada
Benintendi
Brock Holt (just a player I've always liked)
and any 2 Red Sox farm arms

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Shit, I'd do it for less than that.

You're not getting that for Sale.

No player gets you that.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:09 pm 
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IMU wrote:
America wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm not sure if it's possible to get enough value back for Sale.

Swihart
Moncada
Benintendi
Brock Holt (just a player I've always liked)
and any 2 Red Sox farm arms

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Shit, I'd do it for less than that.

You're not getting that for Sale.

No player gets you that.


Trout

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:09 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
IMU wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
So it's Kenny's fault?

I think it is tough to judge Rick Hahn because Kenny Williams still makes all final decisions.

Any mistakes that are made with the Cubs organization would fall on Theo. He is still hands on with all important personnel decisions.

Rick and Jed would be the guys handling contract negotiations and day-to-day handling of scouting, etc.
Nas wrote:
Kenny won a WS with 1 hand tied behind his back. I prefer having Kenny run things just like I prefer Paxson over Gar.

Racist.

Hahn is an snake. He's developed into this folk hero being unfairly shackled by Kenny Williams. WTF?

He wasn't some outsider unfamiliar with the Sox organization. Hahn knew how the Sox functioned. He turned down the opportunity to interview for other GM positions for the Sox job.

His fingerprints are all over this shit just as much as Kenny.
Angry Cubs fan alert!

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:14 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Angry Cubs fan alert!

:lol:

I like Kenny.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:15 pm 
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IMU wrote:
America wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm not sure if it's possible to get enough value back for Sale.

Swihart
Moncada
Benintendi
Brock Holt (just a player I've always liked)
and any 2 Red Sox farm arms

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Shit, I'd do it for less than that.

You're not getting that for Sale.

No player gets you that.

None of those guys have been stars at the ML level. Holt and Swihart have held their own, but the White Sox would hardly be asking for Xander Bogearts or Mookie Betts here.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:27 pm 
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America wrote:
IMU wrote:
America wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm not sure if it's possible to get enough value back for Sale.

Swihart
Moncada
Benintendi
Brock Holt (just a player I've always liked)
and any 2 Red Sox farm arms

I'd do it in a heartbeat. Shit, I'd do it for less than that.

You're not getting that for Sale.

No player gets you that.

None of those guys have been stars at the ML level. Holt and Swihart have held their own, but the White Sox would hardly be asking for Xander Bogearts or Mookie Betts here.



IF you are moving Sale, you better get a stud pitcher, hitter and some nice prospects. This would have to be a Hershal Walker type deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:38 pm 
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Cashman wrote:
IF you are moving Sale, you better get a stud pitcher, hitter and some nice prospects. This would have to be a Hershal Walker type deal.

Well Moncada is one of the best prospects in baseball and Swihart and Benintendi aren't slouches either.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Angry Cubs fan alert!

:lol:

I like Kenny.


You also like every Bears GM!

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I'm not sure if it's possible to get enough value back for Sale.


The Dodgers role deep, and Sale would make their rotation the best 1-5 in baseball, without question. For that:

Corey Seager
Jose DeLeon
Grant Holmes

Or, instead of Seager, substitute Puig, Alex Verdugo and Mitch Hansen.

Instantly, the Sox become a top-10 farm system in baseball, with the #10 pick in the coming draft.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Kenny won a world series 5 years after taking over. Since 2005 they've had 2 underwhelming playoff appearances. That is really underwhelming. As much as I'd like to give Kenny credit for 2005, I have to conclude luck had more to do with it than him being a good General Manager.

You do not give a way a pitcher like Chris Sale. period. We can't see how he'd perform in a big game because we can't even get to the damn playoffs. Quintana is a step below, but the same applies...he's good and under contract.

Nas,
I agree that the offense is a bigger problem, but you cannot call the Sox starting rotation "good". They're not good.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:59 pm 
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He put together a really good team in 2005. Luck is oart of it for every WS team, but that team was really good. Luck doesnt get you thru 3 closers on the year and luck doesnt get you 11-1 in the playoffs.

Whats really inderwhelming is that since 2005, they have had 1 playoff appearance.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:01 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
You do not give a way a pitcher like Chris Sale. period. We can't see how he'd perform in a big game because we can't even get to the damn playoffs.


Sale is already 27, though, and this team is years away from being a serious playoff contender. Sure, they could have another 2005-like year, with a roster of guys on the wrong side of 30 playing absolutely out of their minds for one season, but if that's what the GM-President hybrid is hoping for, the Sox' problems run far deeper than talent.

So, with Sale quickly approaching 30, what are you holding on for? A few more dazzling performances for a team that, at the end of the day, isn't going anywhere? Sale is impossible to replace with a single player, to be sure, but trading him now could jump-start a rebuilding process that should have started, at the latest, in 2015. So instead of three prolonged years of sucktitude in order to horde top draft picks, fans would only be forced to endure two at the most, as Sale commands a glut of MLB-ready prospects.


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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:02 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
Kenny won a world series 5 years after taking over. Since 2005 they've had 2 underwhelming playoff appearances. That is really underwhelming. As much as I'd like to give Kenny credit for 2005, I have to conclude luck had more to do with it than him being a good General Manager.

You do not give a way a pitcher like Chris Sale. period. We can't see how he'd perform in a big game because we can't even get to the damn playoffs. Quintana is a step below, but the same applies...he's good and under contract.

Nas,
I agree that the offense is a bigger problem, but you cannot call the Sox starting rotation "good". They're not good.


They have a #1 and #2 that most teams in baseball would love to have. When Rodon has control he's a great #3. He's still young and developing too.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:30 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Trout

I'm not so sure.

Moncada and Benintendi are top shelf prospects, and Swihart is pretty much already a Top 10 MLB catcher. Holt hasn't done much, but is still a decent player and may still improve.

Plus two random arms?

I don't know. Mayyyyybe Trout. Not Sale.

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 Post subject: Re: Rick Hahn
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:33 pm 
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There are only a handful of teams that have the assets to get Sale. The Cubs are 1 but it would cost them more than everyone else.

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