I agree, but present day Rodon is not good. Latos not good. (pencil-in name) #5 starter) not good. They now have James Shields.....that's not enough. yes...1 and 2 are awesome, but 3-5 has been awful.

Frank,
That 2005 team was awesome...no doubt. I also agree Kenny did it with one arm tied behind his back. There were really good moves there, but he also got really lucky as well.

Post 2005 he's really had zero luck. Overall, the Thome trade was a good one, but he's pretty much fallen flat since then.
Flat out bad contracts: Swisher, Rios, Dunn, LaRoche
Players way out of their prime: Sandy Jr, Griffey Jr, Manny, Andrew Jones
Holding on to players way too long: Alexei, Beckham, Flowers, Dye, Konerko. yes...I'm sure Jerry had something to do with Dye and Konerko but still....the farm was bare and year after year there's been holes in the lineup with no one to fill.

I have no idea how this team had the start they did, but it's a really average to below average lineup even after benefitting from LaRoche leaving.

Kenny's resume is not good. It's just not. I can only credit 2005 with more luck than the genius of Kenny.

_________________

To be fair, after being traded away by the Sox, he played out his arb years with a 124 OPS+. That was an instance of Ozzie and the various cliques that were allowed to grow in that locker room pushing him out.

I don't feel that way about Sale. But look, it doesn't make any difference what your philosophy is on what a good pitcher is. Even if you think Quintana is right along side Walter Johnson and Tom Seaver, what the fuck is his greatness doing for the Chicago White Sox?

I don't want my team losing on purpose but I'm getting tired of this trying with mediocre players. The conventional wisdom is the Sox have to try to compete or the fans won't come out. Well, they're trying and the fans aren't coming anyway. With their sweetheart lease the Sox are uniquely positioned to weather a bad season or two developing some young guys. And maybe it doesn't even have to be that bad. I have nothing against Melky Cabrera. He's a decent ballplayer. I'm just tired of watching him. He isn't helping me. Sometimes you replaced those type of guys with some young hungry guys and the team actually improves.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

True. The Sox fan party line is to blame 2008 on two pretty good big league players in Vazquez and Swisher. Granted, Swisher had a bad year, but they gave up a lot to get him and got back nothing in return. Same with Vazquez. Those were terrible trades coming and going. Swisher is a clown, and there wasn't room in the Sox dugout for any clown that wasn't named Guillen.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's my point.

Look Sale can flat out pitch but he's a headcase. He's weird, he's crazy, he's mad all the time and he has only stupid things to say (Drake LaRoche) and do (fall out of his truck, or whatever actually happened). I'm not sick of him yet, but after he's failed to be the "stopper" the past couple weeks I'm not gonna be devastated if he leaves.

Same goes for Quintana. And Eaton.

I don't even think it'll require a losing season. Make these moves before the deadline and get Swihart in there at C, Benintendi in the OF, Anderson at SS, Gallo (oh man if you could swing that for Q...delicious) at 3B and move Fraz to 1B...that's not a bad lineup to build around. That's also just the tip of the iceberg you'll get for Sale/Q/Eaton/Melky...

Sale is an excellent pitcher. Just not against Central division opponents.

It would be nice to have a chance to win without throwing a perfect game. If guys like JORR would spend more time looking at the offense the world would be a better place.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Inter-administration bickering. Ouch.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I don't expect anyone to pitch a perfect game, but I do expect a good pitcher to pitch better than Dillon Gee and Marco Estrada.

How can it be that Quintana is one of the greatest pitchers in baseball without being the best pitcher in any game he is actually in the majority of the time?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Great move, Rick.

Was it Rick Or zkenny? Both should be fires and killed.

This needed to be done about 8 times since 2005.

Each and every time they tried to "go for it".

Fuck it.

And fuck this team.

_________________

What? This exactly what luck Does.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Sale would bring in a great haul if they decide to go that route.

No way in the world you are getting Gallo in a deal for Quintana

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Another dick sucking Cub fan talking out of turn.

2005.

Because you are ignoring the biggest problem with the Sox. Quintana and Sale lose games or get no decisions in games where they give up 1 or 2 runs on a regular basis. Why? Because it's easy to shut down the Sox offense.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Q and Sale shrink when the Sox need them most. It is a bigger issue for Sale because he's THE GREATEST PITCHER IN SOX HISTORY (yawn) and Quintana is really just a mid-rotation starter who happens to be a darling of the analytics crowd, but JORR's not wrong if he calls them losers. Both guys are given leads and both have a tendancy to blow those leads immediately.

It's one thing if Sale or Q goes 7 IP with 1 or 0 ER can get the ND or loss. Its another when the Sox give these guys a run in the first inning, and then by the 5th the Sox are losing 2-1. 7 IP 2 ER doesn't look bad, but in that case it is. If you want to be an ace you dont blow leads and both these guys blow leads.

Also, after tonight I'm ready to put Robertson in a rocket and send him to the moon.

But it's really not. The Sox average 4.03 runs per game. The AL average is 4.43. You keep telling me Quintana is so great yet he can't limit the teams he faces to less than they average?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I've never called Sale a loser. And as of today Quintana is most certainly a loser. That is a documented fact.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Coming from the guy who says each game is played on its own...why are you factoring in what the Sox score when Quintana isnt pitching?

It is called hard luck because the Sox always score less on days Quintana pitches. Look at his run support versus other starters.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I thought you said no one can lose by a fraction of a run or win by a fraction of a run.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

That's right. So in most instances you have two teams averaging the same amount of offense per game for all practical purposes and one team has the Great Jose Quintana and the other team usually has someone supposedly less than the Great Jose Quintana and yet, the lesser guy usually pitches better than the Great Jose Quintana.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

At this point, the Sox will find a way to lose by a fraction of a run. Probably tonite.

Nationals 4.18274638074629103
White Sox 0.00000

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Let's think about that for a minute. I know you're a Cub fan so you probably do believe in curses, but do you really believe that Quintana has gotten "unlucky" in over 130+ career starts? Or does it make more sense that conditions in many of his games have lent themselves to low scores?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Quintana is an outlier. I posted a week or 2 ago that in his last 15 losses (going back to the start of last season), the Sox have scored 1 or fewer runs 12 of those times. Take any other pitcher right now and I would think you would have to go back 3, 4, maybe 5 years for some of these guys to find 12 losses-- not no decisions, but actual losses-- where his team scored 1 or fewer runs.

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A lot of teams score 1 or fewer runs in their losses in normal baseball. I realize that for about twenty years that wasn't the case.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

What are you talking about? He has only given up more than 4 runs 19 times in his career (10% of his starts). That means damn near every start he hold a team under their average. What about 60% of his starts he holds the opposing team to 2 or fewer runs do you hate? The Sox just don't score runs. Their starters know if they have a bad inning the game is over. A pitcher shouldn't have to go into every game thinking "I can't give up any runs".

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

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There isn't a hurricane every time he takes the mound. It is essentially a day off for the opposing pitcher though.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Doesn't Quintana have the highest WAR in the league?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!