ERA+ of 117.

2016 Cubs ERA+? 179.

So...not even close.

Also, for JORR those pitchers have a 73% winning percentage.

Cubs starters? 74% winning percentage.

Don't even try to debate this. You cannot.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I don't see Hamell winning 20.. But I could see Jake,Lester n Lackey all winning 20+

_________________

The pitchers above each got 37-38 starts, except McNally.

A little easier to get to the 20 win mark that way.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Yes and no, throwing 285 innings yearly ain't easy. I don't believe that's even including post season IP..

_________________

If you add up the innings pitched for any current pitchers pitching in the post-season, it comes up to be similar if not the same.

Spring Training is longer now than it was then, and the post-season was shorter.

Yes, they had mostly four man rotations in 1971, but their schedule had a ton of off-days due to twin bills, and spot starters always pitched one of the double header games. So pitchers were not pitching every four days... and over the course of the entire season, they didn't get that much more of a workload. They also did not put as much work in between starts.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

THIS guy gets it.

2003 Cubs Starting Rotation
Prior
Wood
Zambrano
Clement
Estes

A bad manager, a meh bullpen, and what I'd call an overrated lineup...but that starting rotation 1-5 was pretty damn good.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams ... hing.shtml

_________________

We're not discussing potential. We're discussing what is taking place.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I'd still take the 2003 rotation.

_________________

That's...interesting.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Actually, it can be debated.

The Cubs starting staff has been really good. But they go 6, 7 innings most of the time. Sometimes they get in to the 8th and a few times into the 9th.

Those 4 guys on the '71 Orioles had 70 complete games. Its an era of bullpens and thus to say the Cubs starting staff is the best in the last 50 years is silly regardless if what "ERA +" might say. If you want to say best of the last 10 or maybe 20, ok. But no way are they the best in the last 50 years.

_________________

Might be the best in 100 years, actually.

The Cubs have one of the better bullpens in MLB, also. Why throw more pitches than you have to? Cubs are trying to win a World Series. The 1971 Orioles wouldn't know about winning a World Series.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

If the 03 rotation wasn't abused... perhaps they win the world series that year.

Dusty leaving prior in after the bartman ball was the worst management decision possibly in the history of baseball. If he goes to the mound and gets a fresh arm after that at bat something else might happen. That team was close to wigging out. Take a minute. Go to the mound. Call in a reliever. Give the team on the field a chance to exhale and I wager they get that fucking game.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I said that to my wife at the time. Time for a moment to chill and refocus a bit. But Dusty and the jacked up speed roid boys made it what it was and is.

Right after the non-fan interference ball, there was a botched DP ground ball to Alex Gonzalez. Dusty made his bad decisions, but that play alone was the biggest problem of the game.

The 2003 bullpen....no way. This bullpen is better.
Rotations are interesting. I think 1-5 the 2003 rotation is better, but the top 2 of this year's maybe more suitable for a playoff series.

_________________

Letting Prior throw 116 pitches in Game 2 with 11-0 lead wasn't the greatest decision either.

_________________
You know me like that.

Dr Ken and Darkside are 100% correct here.

_________________

Yes...correct in that they are speaking in 100% hypotheticals.

Best team in MLB...historically good in many areas...and Cubs fans are talking about 2003.

Good God. Most Cubs fans don't deserve to experience success.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Agreed.

_________________

yousonofa......

Don't worry Matt.

You're one of the good ones.

_________________

We appreciate that.

_________________

https://twitter.com/ScottLindholm/statu ... 8672346112

Best since 1920.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

#1967

_________________

My original post regarding the '03 staff and potential was firmly tongue in cheek...

This year's staff is walking the walk.

_________________

So why can't the ace of the best starting staff of the last 50 years not go more than 5 innings anymore?

Baseball happens every now and then champ.

The answer to the original question is no.

If they were the best in the last 10 years even, their team would be over .500 in 1 run games (currently at 9-11).

The Cubs have an atrocious record when they score fewer than 4 runs (4-20). If this pitching staff was so good, they would be winning a lot more of these close games.

_________________

Is this even true? What are the historical records for teams when they score fewer than 4 runs? I dont have the answer it just seems as though you cherry picked a stat that shows what you want it to.

_________________

4 does seem a peculiar #...what's their record when scoring 3 runs or less.

_________________

Probably not much better.