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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Beardown wrote:
I think it's a good law. The family of the 49 dead would also think it's a good law.


Ok, that's nice, but what makes your opinion or their collective opinion any more or less valuable than mine? Because there's more of you? That's unnerving.

And if we assume the law on the books would apply here...why didn't it stop this? What good is punishing the wife for not telling people going to do?

And finally, where does it stop? What if I tell you I'm going to rob a bank to fund terrorists? Then just robbing a bank? Then just fudging my taxes a bit? Then just saying derisive things about the government?

A crime of "failure to report prior knowledge" equates too much with a thought crime for my liking, even more so than hate crimes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Just when it applies to terrorist attacks. Everything else, I would say no.

But if she knew that he was driving 100 miles to try to kill hundreds of people that night and did nothing, yes, she should go to jail. Now, they have to prove it. I don't know if they can. And I also don't know if she knew. But there should be a trial to find out.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:34 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
Beardown wrote:
Why the wife has not already been arrested is beyond me. She's not very bright either.

NBC news is reporting that she told the FBI she knew her husband was planning an attack but she tried to talk him out of it.

That's all well and good. I'm sure in her mind she didn't think she was committing a crime. But that doesn't matter. Her admitting this means she's not smart. She has no idea that she just incriminated herself. But she did.

It's a crime against the state. Shouldn't she be facing the death penalty? I mean she aided and abetted a terrorist. Cuz NBC also reported that she drove him around casing out locations.


Charge her with what though? It's not a crime to not tell on somebody. If it's true that she helped him stake out the place knowing what he planned to do that's a different story.

Tell that to Buck Weaver!!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:52 pm 
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Rough week for Orlando....apparently an alligator just dragged a 2-yr old into a lagoon next to the Grand Floridian at Disneyworld.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:11 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Ok, that's nice, but what makes your opinion or their collective opinion any more or less valuable than mine? Because there's more of you? That's unnerving.

Democracy is supposed to be representative of the people; the majority rule, so yes, their opinion counts more than your minority opinion when it comes to forming laws for the country. That being said, opinions evolve over time, so in time, you may be in the majority. If something like this had happened in 1982, hypothetically, we'd see a lot more blaming the victim and the jokes would be flying around. However it took the LGBT community years of constant effort to get popular opinion on their side.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:07 am 
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newper wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Ok, that's nice, but what makes your opinion or their collective opinion any more or less valuable than mine? Because there's more of you? That's unnerving.

Democracy is supposed to be representative of the people; the majority rule, so yes, their opinion counts more than your minority opinion when it comes to forming laws for the country.


Good thing we operate as a republic, then, where the collective people vote various representatives to vote on their behalf and in their best interests, which isn't always coinciding with what "the people" want. In your system, The People could vote (or have their representatives vote) to give each American $1 million cash, tax free, over the cries of the economists in the minority decrying the move as economic suicide. After all, the opinion of the majority counts more than that of the minority, doesn't it?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:16 am 
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I always thought a spouse could not be made to testify against the other spouse. Wouldn't that extend to this?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:09 am 
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Looks like shooter dude's dad was stalking the State Dept:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:27 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I always thought a spouse could not be made to testify against the other spouse.

I bet you did


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:50 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Beardown wrote:
It is a federal crime to know of a terrorist attack and not report it.


That's such a bone-chilling sentiment, I had to look it up.

18 U.S. Code § 2339

Quote:
(a) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has reasonable grounds to believe, has committed, or is about to commit, an offense under section 32 (relating to destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities), section 175 (relating to biological weapons), section 229 (relating to chemical weapons), section 831 (relating to nuclear materials), paragraph (2) or (3) of section 844(f) (relating to arson and bombing of government property risking or causing injury or death), section 1366(a) (relating to the destruction of an energy facility), section 2280 (relating to violence against maritime navigation), section 2332a (relating to weapons of mass destruction), or section 2332b (relating to acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries) of this title, section 236(a) (relating to sabotage of nuclear facilities or fuel) of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284(a)), or section 46502 (relating to aircraft piracy) of title 49, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.


That's the only thing I could find about concealing terrorist plots in federal law. I mean, maybe § 2332b's broad definition of "conduct transcending national boundaries" could apply to the wife, and she could be charged under 2339, but Holy Christ it would be scary for the US to actually charge and prosecute a citizen for not reporting the conduct or intentions of someone else in these circumstances.



My partner shot a guy five times and he survived. The victim filed a civil suit based on the idea that a bunch of us knew what my partner intended to do and had a duty to warn him. It went all the way up the ladder to the Supreme Court. It's a very important case.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-supreme-c ... 76035.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:13 am 
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His plan was to kill the guy and then commit suicide...double failure.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:16 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Beardown wrote:
It is a federal crime to know of a terrorist attack and not report it.


That's such a bone-chilling sentiment, I had to look it up.

18 U.S. Code § 2339

Quote:
(a) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has reasonable grounds to believe, has committed, or is about to commit, an offense under section 32 (relating to destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities), section 175 (relating to biological weapons), section 229 (relating to chemical weapons), section 831 (relating to nuclear materials), paragraph (2) or (3) of section 844(f) (relating to arson and bombing of government property risking or causing injury or death), section 1366(a) (relating to the destruction of an energy facility), section 2280 (relating to violence against maritime navigation), section 2332a (relating to weapons of mass destruction), or section 2332b (relating to acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries) of this title, section 236(a) (relating to sabotage of nuclear facilities or fuel) of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284(a)), or section 46502 (relating to aircraft piracy) of title 49, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.


That's the only thing I could find about concealing terrorist plots in federal law. I mean, maybe § 2332b's broad definition of "conduct transcending national boundaries" could apply to the wife, and she could be charged under 2339, but Holy Christ it would be scary for the US to actually charge and prosecute a citizen for not reporting the conduct or intentions of someone else in these circumstances.



My partner shot a guy five times and he survived. The victim filed a civil suit based on the idea that a bunch of us knew what my partner intended to do and had a duty to warn him. It went all the way up the ladder to the Supreme Court. It's a very important case.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-supreme-c ... 76035.html


Would have been nice to know that you were involved in an attempted murder.

Thanks,

The "other" Management

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:24 am 
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what was the over/under on number of times the homicidal lunatic would shoot the other guy. And did JORR take out huge personal loans from both the partner and the intended target in advance of the kill-by date.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:44 am 
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JDC chooses some of the strangest battles to fight. It's bizarre.

Yes, if you know and are working with someone who is actively plotting a terrorist attack and you do nothing then you deserve to get charged with a crime. It's not a thought crime. A thought crime would be thinking about doing it yourself and then not doing it.

The moment she drove him to scope out a potential target she deserves to get charged.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:45 am 
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i think you mean JLN, but JDC probably works too


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:47 am 
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Bagels wrote:
i think you mean JLN, but JDC probably works too
Oops.

I still can't read his name as not being Julie's Lecture Notes. I think my brain may be broken.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:50 am 
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Yep.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:53 am 
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Some guy not Someguy wanted to talk about people loving Muslims more than Gays. They said no.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ersity-of/

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:
i think you mean JLN, but JDC probably works too
Oops.

I still can't read his name as not being Julie's Lecture Notes. I think my brain may be broken.


Well, that would still be JLN


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:56 am 
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Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:
i think you mean JLN, but JDC probably works too
Oops.

I still can't read his name as not being Julie's Lecture Notes. I think my brain may be broken.


Well, that would still be JLN
Not to my broken brain.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:21 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
JDC chooses some of the strangest battles to fight. It's bizarre.

Yes, if you know and are working with someone who is actively plotting a terrorist attack and you do nothing then you deserve to get charged with a crime. It's not a thought crime. A thought crime would be thinking about doing it yourself and then not doing it.

The moment she drove him to scope out a potential target she deserves to get charged.



I think it would likely fall under conspiracy rather than a "duty to warn".

I mean, if she has a duty to warn, God help all of us if IMU ever decides to burn your house down.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:39 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I always thought a spouse could not be made to testify against the other spouse.

I bet you did

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:50 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I always thought a spouse could not be made to testify against the other spouse. Wouldn't that extend to this?


I don't think they were legally married.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:24 am 
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Management wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Beardown wrote:
It is a federal crime to know of a terrorist attack and not report it.


That's such a bone-chilling sentiment, I had to look it up.

18 U.S. Code § 2339

Quote:
(a) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has reasonable grounds to believe, has committed, or is about to commit, an offense under section 32 (relating to destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities), section 175 (relating to biological weapons), section 229 (relating to chemical weapons), section 831 (relating to nuclear materials), paragraph (2) or (3) of section 844(f) (relating to arson and bombing of government property risking or causing injury or death), section 1366(a) (relating to the destruction of an energy facility), section 2280 (relating to violence against maritime navigation), section 2332a (relating to weapons of mass destruction), or section 2332b (relating to acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries) of this title, section 236(a) (relating to sabotage of nuclear facilities or fuel) of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284(a)), or section 46502 (relating to aircraft piracy) of title 49, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.


That's the only thing I could find about concealing terrorist plots in federal law. I mean, maybe § 2332b's broad definition of "conduct transcending national boundaries" could apply to the wife, and she could be charged under 2339, but Holy Christ it would be scary for the US to actually charge and prosecute a citizen for not reporting the conduct or intentions of someone else in these circumstances.



My partner shot a guy five times and he survived. The victim filed a civil suit based on the idea that a bunch of us knew what my partner intended to do and had a duty to warn him. It went all the way up the ladder to the Supreme Court. It's a very important case.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-supreme-c ... 76035.html


Would have been nice to know that you were involved in an attempted murder.

Thanks,

The "other" Management


enjoy your RICO trial in the near future Management "the good ones"

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:28 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Management wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Beardown wrote:
It is a federal crime to know of a terrorist attack and not report it.


That's such a bone-chilling sentiment, I had to look it up.

18 U.S. Code § 2339

Quote:
(a) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has reasonable grounds to believe, has committed, or is about to commit, an offense under section 32 (relating to destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities), section 175 (relating to biological weapons), section 229 (relating to chemical weapons), section 831 (relating to nuclear materials), paragraph (2) or (3) of section 844(f) (relating to arson and bombing of government property risking or causing injury or death), section 1366(a) (relating to the destruction of an energy facility), section 2280 (relating to violence against maritime navigation), section 2332a (relating to weapons of mass destruction), or section 2332b (relating to acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries) of this title, section 236(a) (relating to sabotage of nuclear facilities or fuel) of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284(a)), or section 46502 (relating to aircraft piracy) of title 49, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.


That's the only thing I could find about concealing terrorist plots in federal law. I mean, maybe § 2332b's broad definition of "conduct transcending national boundaries" could apply to the wife, and she could be charged under 2339, but Holy Christ it would be scary for the US to actually charge and prosecute a citizen for not reporting the conduct or intentions of someone else in these circumstances.



My partner shot a guy five times and he survived. The victim filed a civil suit based on the idea that a bunch of us knew what my partner intended to do and had a duty to warn him. It went all the way up the ladder to the Supreme Court. It's a very important case.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-supreme-c ... 76035.html


Would have been nice to know that you were involved in an attempted murder.

Thanks,

The "other" Management


enjoy your RICO trial in the near future Management "the good ones"


:lol: Besides the fact that there are a lot of wrong "facts" in that brief, it really was a ridiculous position to take. But he almost succeeded. Every single one of us was shocked when he shot the guy. I mean, how many times each month do you hear someone say they'd like to kill someone?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:28 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Beardown wrote:
It is a federal crime to know of a terrorist attack and not report it.


That's such a bone-chilling sentiment, I had to look it up.

18 U.S. Code § 2339

Quote:
(a) Whoever harbors or conceals any person who he knows, or has reasonable grounds to believe, has committed, or is about to commit, an offense under section 32 (relating to destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities), section 175 (relating to biological weapons), section 229 (relating to chemical weapons), section 831 (relating to nuclear materials), paragraph (2) or (3) of section 844(f) (relating to arson and bombing of government property risking or causing injury or death), section 1366(a) (relating to the destruction of an energy facility), section 2280 (relating to violence against maritime navigation), section 2332a (relating to weapons of mass destruction), or section 2332b (relating to acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries) of this title, section 236(a) (relating to sabotage of nuclear facilities or fuel) of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284(a)), or section 46502 (relating to aircraft piracy) of title 49, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.


That's the only thing I could find about concealing terrorist plots in federal law. I mean, maybe § 2332b's broad definition of "conduct transcending national boundaries" could apply to the wife, and she could be charged under 2339, but Holy Christ it would be scary for the US to actually charge and prosecute a citizen for not reporting the conduct or intentions of someone else in these circumstances.



My partner shot a guy five times and he survived. The victim filed a civil suit based on the idea that a bunch of us knew what my partner intended to do and had a duty to warn him. It went all the way up the ladder to the Supreme Court. It's a very important case.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-supreme-c ... 76035.html


Did you yell out "Super Bears, Super Bowl!" to Bob Thomas?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:00 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
JDC chooses some of the strangest battles to fight. It's bizarre.

Yes, if you know and are working with someone who is actively plotting a terrorist attack and you do nothing then you deserve to get charged with a crime. It's not a thought crime. A thought crime would be thinking about doing it yourself and then not doing it.

The moment she drove him to scope out a potential target she deserves to get charged.



I think it would likely fall under conspiracy rather than a "duty to warn".

I mean, if she has a duty to warn, God help all of us if IMU ever decides to burn your house down.


Yes. My umbrage is at the very idea that she could be prosecuted and imprisoned for merely failing to warn authorities of some impending act. Placing such a duty on all citizens is 1) probably unconstitutional and 2) pretty scary stuff, as that has been a tactic of many not-so-good governmental regimes in the last 100 years. Even the justices in JORR's case raised a skeptical eyebrow at the enshrinement of such a duty in States' criminal code, and spent three paragraphs hammering Appellants about how deviation from the no-affirmative-duty-rule runs contrary to our entire system of rule of law.

However, if she took him to scope out the joint, while knowing what he planned to do, she is a co-conspirator in the least, and probably guilty of aiding and abetting a terrorist plot at worst. That is, though, quite different than punishing her for not dialing 911 if he said "Alright, see ya baby, I'm gonna go kill a bunch of people at that nightclub, rinse the dishes before you put them in the wash, please."


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:25 pm 
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5th Amendment right against self-incrimination possibly comes into play as well. Chances are if you are close enough to someone to be cognizant of their plans to blow shit up/shoot shit up/ etc, that if/when they are prosecuted, you could catch a co-conspirator charge, at least initially.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:35 pm 
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This wife, not too smart. Should have lawyered up right away.

She's not well educated, nor does she come from wealth. But maybe just by watching TV shows or movies she would have figured it out if she wanted to save her ass. SHUT UP AND GET A LAWYER. She said too much too the FBI. She had no idea what she was doing to herself. She incriminated herself. The Grand Jury will say it's fit to go to trial.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:48 pm 
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I think a good lesson is any time more than 10 people die and someone wants to ask you questions (media or police), say nothing and find a lawyer.

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