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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:40 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I think the reports clearly said that the child wasnt swimming. He was in shallow water at the shoreline, not doing laps in the middle of the lake. Its semantics but a WARNING: GATORS sign would have been more accurate.
It would have been more accurate but I don't think anyone should have thought it was safe to let your kids go in water that says "No swimming".


Yeah, I'm a rules man all the way and I would have been yelling at the kids if they went in the water that said no swimming (gators or no gators). But if you put me on that jury, I'm siding with the family. Disney controls every aspect of that park, to think they werent aware of a potential Gator issue is laughable. I'm surprised they dont have DNR shore patrolmen dressed as Capt Hook on the lookout for 'crocodiles'.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:41 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
i see both sides here. How many signs can you put up to warn people? what is proper warning? A sign every 200 feet...? well someone well still claim they didnt see the sign.

Disney can only do so much to reasonably protect it's guests from Gators. But I also understand how out of town tourists would have no concept or fear of gators being in the lake... it on the surface just looks like a nice lake.


How many signs? How about more than zero?

Proper warning? one that mentions alligators

Every 200 feet? Probably less than that, I would have at least a few big ones right on that beach in plain view.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:41 pm 
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resorts have been on those lakes for 45 years. first gator incident. that we know of.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:42 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
resorts have been on those lakes for 45 years. first gator incident. that we know of.


Did you read the article?

Pretty big fact in that article that you are missing.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:43 pm 
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well yeah encouraging guests to feed the gators is something new AFAIK

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:46 pm 
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shakes wrote:
2. As for other Do not enter signs, I would argue that rarely do have those signs posted because death lurks on the other side.
Fences around airports, electrical equipment, interstate highways, and trash compactors all have do not enter signs posted because death lurks on the other side. I see these signs almost every single work day. Rarely would not be the correct word to use there.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:49 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
shakes wrote:
2. As for other Do not enter signs, I would argue that rarely do have those signs posted because death lurks on the other side.
Fences around airports, electrical equipment, interstate highways, and trash compactors all have do not enter signs posted because death lurks on the other side. I see these signs almost every single work day. Rarely would not be the correct word to use there.



I disagree with that when it comes to Disney. I would imagine that many of the "do not enter" signs are related to areas of the park reserved for workers.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:50 pm 
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way back in the day you were actively encouraged to swim in those lakes.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:51 pm 
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You would imagine wrong. There are do not enter signs all over the rides and monorail tracks.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:53 pm 
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Why don't they just ban gators?


BUILD A WALL


Make Disney Great Again.


:lol: fo' each of ya ...

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:56 pm 
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I hate Disney. I will enjoy seeing every cent they lose walk out the door....could care less who it goes to.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:58 pm 
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shakes wrote:
billypootons wrote:
i see both sides here. How many signs can you put up to warn people? what is proper warning? A sign every 200 feet...? well someone well still claim they didnt see the sign.

Disney can only do so much to reasonably protect it's guests from Gators. But I also understand how out of town tourists would have no concept or fear of gators being in the lake... it on the surface just looks like a nice lake.


How many signs? How about more than zero?

Proper warning? one that mentions alligators

Every 200 feet? Probably less than that, I would have at least a few big ones right on that beach in plain view.


there were signs nearby
Quote:
There are "No Swimming" signs at the lagoon, and no one but the child was in the water at the time of the attack, Demings said.
Declan Salcido, who was vacationing at the resort with relatives from San Jose, California, said the "No Swimming" signs are visible "from any vantage point."
The lagoon is not for recreational swimming.
"This is Florida, and it's not uncommon for alligators to be in bodies of water," Demings said.


Disney would need to open a sheet metal factory to produce signs for every potentially dangerous thing that exists in central florida. you are captain hindsight if you are arguing the no swimming signs should have read "no swimming/wading or going in the water with a picture of an aligator". Apparently you also feel the signs posted every 200 feet need a light on them so they are visible 24 hours a day since the attack took place at 9pm at night.... sometimes bad things happen no matter what you do to protect people. I'm a reasonable person, and when i see a no swimming sign i interpret it to mean stay the hell out of the water.


Last edited by billypootons on Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:59 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
You would imagine wrong. There are do not enter signs all over the rides and monorail tracks.


And I'm sure there are plenty of other do not enter signs in such dangerous places as the gift shops and cafeterias/restaurants.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:01 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
shakes wrote:
billypootons wrote:
i see both sides here. How many signs can you put up to warn people? what is proper warning? A sign every 200 feet...? well someone well still claim they didnt see the sign.

Disney can only do so much to reasonably protect it's guests from Gators. But I also understand how out of town tourists would have no concept or fear of gators being in the lake... it on the surface just looks like a nice lake.


How many signs? How about more than zero?

Proper warning? one that mentions alligators

Every 200 feet? Probably less than that, I would have at least a few big ones right on that beach in plain view.


there were signs nearby
Quote:
There are "No Swimming" signs at the lagoon, and no one but the child was in the water at the time of the attack, Demings said.
Declan Salcido, who was vacationing at the resort with relatives from San Jose, California, said the "No Swimming" signs are visible "from any vantage point."
The lagoon is not for recreational swimming.
"This is Florida, and it's not uncommon for alligators to be in bodies of water," Demings said.


Disney would need to open a sheet metal factory to produce signs for every potentially dangerous thing that exists in central florida. you are captain hindsight if you are arguing the no swimming signs should have read "no swimming/wading or going in the water with a picture of an aligator" apparently you also feel the signs posted every 200 feet need a light on them so they are visible 24 hours a day since the attack took place at 9pm at night.... sometimes bad things happen no matter what you do to protect people.


so we all agree that there are NO SIGNS anywhere in that area that warns of gators?

Disney doesn't need a sheet metal plant, they need better signs than the ones they have which CLEARLY don't convey the true danger of the area.

Maybe while they are making new signs they can also get rid of the man made beach/attractive nuisance located in between the pool and the lake.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:03 pm 
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shakes wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Why would you think it would be safe to enter water that says "No swimming"?

There are plenty of "Do not enter" signs at Disney too. They don't tell you why you shouldn't enter.

As I said just a minute ago too, if the gator got him on land then we have something here.



Why would I think it was safe to enter the water that says no swimming? Here let me give you a few reasons..

1. The lake is next to the pool and I could believe that the signs were posted because Disney didn't want anyone swimming in the lake as opposed to the pool.

2. I differentiate between swimming and wading.

3. I also differentiate between signs that say "no swimming" and "do not enter the lake". There's enough of a semantical argument there that I could argue that clearer signage was necessary given the danger.

In all 3 of those scenarios I would argue that it's reasonable to assume you weren't in danger as opposed to simply breaking a cosmetic rule at he park.


As for the Do not enter signs...

1. I would agree that a Do not enter sign would be more appropriate for this lake than a no swimming sign.

2. As for other Do not enter signs, I would argue that rarely do have those signs posted because death lurks on the other side.
This is why people get eaten by gators. It may be time to adjust your thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:09 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
shakes wrote:
billypootons wrote:
i see both sides here. How many signs can you put up to warn people? what is proper warning? A sign every 200 feet...? well someone well still claim they didnt see the sign.

Disney can only do so much to reasonably protect it's guests from Gators. But I also understand how out of town tourists would have no concept or fear of gators being in the lake... it on the surface just looks like a nice lake.


How many signs? How about more than zero?

Proper warning? one that mentions alligators

Every 200 feet? Probably less than that, I would have at least a few big ones right on that beach in plain view.


there were signs nearby
Quote:
There are "No Swimming" signs at the lagoon, and no one but the child was in the water at the time of the attack, Demings said.
Declan Salcido, who was vacationing at the resort with relatives from San Jose, California, said the "No Swimming" signs are visible "from any vantage point."
The lagoon is not for recreational swimming.
"This is Florida, and it's not uncommon for alligators to be in bodies of water," Demings said.


Disney would need to open a sheet metal factory to produce signs for every potentially dangerous thing that exists in central florida. you are captain hindsight if you are arguing the no swimming signs should have read "no swimming/wading or going in the water with a picture of an aligator" apparently you also feel the signs posted every 200 feet need a light on them so they are visible 24 hours a day since the attack took place at 9pm at night.... sometimes bad things happen no matter what you do to protect people.


No kidding. More than "Zero" would be a start. And then I would say every 20 feet there should be a sign. Like I said, it's easy to call the parents stupid for not knowing. But not everybody is aware that every body of water in Florida might have gators. For Disney to assume so is disgusting.

And no, they don't need to have a sign for everything that's dangerous. But certainly for Gators in a lake. Jeez. Why is this so hard to understand?


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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:10 pm 
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If the family was guests at the Grand Floridian resort, there may have been something in the hotel paperwprk that was more specific in saying to stay out of the water, or maybe ever mentioned gators. Ive never stayed there so i dont know.

I do know that the golf course starters emphatically state to stay away from water hazards as there may be gators in the water. At the Lake Buena Vista course we played last december, the starter told us any ball that was within 10' of the water could be picked up and placed further from the water (no closer to hole) with no penalty.

And in gift shops and restaurants, the signs say "cast members only"

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Is it crazy to think they could have purchased this sign instead. But you know disney used the no swimming sign as they didn't want a dangerous thought going thru their guests mind.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:14 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
At the Lake Buena Vista course we played last december, the starter told us any ball that was within 10' of the water could be picked up and placed further from the water (no closer to hole) with no penalty.

Yeah, I bet that's what he said. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:16 pm 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
Is it crazy to think they could have purchased this sign instead. But you know disney used the no swimming sign as they didn't want a dangerous thought going thru their guests mind.

Image


OK if you can prove they consciencely chose to not mention aligators on their signs to protect the lagoon.. for the sake of guest comfort...then you got a case. But if people are really expecting the aligator signs EVERYWHERE if there was no past incidents of aligator attacks... you all are captain hindsights http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/captain-hindsight


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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:22 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Is it crazy to think they could have purchased this sign instead. But you know disney used the no swimming sign as they didn't want a dangerous thought going thru their guests mind.

Image


OK if you can prove they consciencely chose to not mention aligators on their signs to protect the lagoon.. for the sake of guest comfort...then you got a case. But if people are really expecting the aligator signs EVERYWHERE if there was no past incidents of aligator attacks... you all are captain hindsights http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/captain-hindsight


They didn't need to deliberately not mention alligators to avoid blame here. They were on notice that alligators are dangerous and are found in that lake. They are also on notice that little kids play in and around that lake and some even go in the water despite the sign. They also created an attractive nuisance by building the lake and beach and placing it in an area where people walk around and play. And they may very well been on notice that guests were feeding the alligators in that lake.

No one needs to be captain hindsight to know that they needed better protection and warnings.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:23 pm 
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billypootons wrote:
But if people are really expecting the aligator signs EVERYWHERE if there was no past incidents of aligator attacks... you all are captain hindsights http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/captain-hindsight


How about instead of having alligator sings EVERYWHERE we start small and just have one?

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:24 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
I hate Disney. I will enjoy seeing every cent they lose walk out the door....could care less who it goes to.


Carl Hiassen, author of Team Rodent: How Disney Devours the World, agrees:
https://www.amazon.com/Team-Rodent-Disn ... 0345422805

I've read and enjoyed many of his books, but haven't read that one.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:25 pm 
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That was the mistake to start with. Why did they build a man made lake that was connected to canals? Especially if you're not gonna allow people to swim. Even on the beach area. Why? Cuz it looks pretty. Just put up flowers.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:26 pm 
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I would not expect there to be gators on resort grounds. I don't really understand the layout of this one. Are people allowed to hang out or walk around on this beach area?


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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:26 pm 
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How about you remove the sandy beach area altogether from the gator infested lake? Who the fuck puts a beach near a body of water and then expects children not to at least go ankle deep in the water? If you want a beach, put one near a pool inside the resort.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:28 pm 
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I say all this putting blame on Disney but a fair share is on the parents as well. Its 930 at night and you have a two year old splashing around in the water.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:30 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
How about you remove the sandy beach area altogether from the gator infested lake? Who the fuck puts a beach near a body of water and then expects children not to at least go ankle deep in the water? If you want a beach, put one near a pool inside the resort.



attractive nuisance defined.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:31 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I say all this putting blame on Disney but a fair share is on the parents as well. Its 930 at night and you have a two year old splashing around in the water.


Why does time matter? If it was 2:30 in the afternoon, and the gator got him, it would have been acceptable? Maybe the parents just checked in, the kids were up and they just wanted to relax a little bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:31 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I say all this putting blame on Disney but a fair share is on the parents as well. Its 930 at night and you have a two year old splashing around in the water.


It's the 3rd child and they were on vacation. If they are not having a melt down that kid is fine doing what kids do. He could have been 3 ft out of the water with a parent right next to him and been taken down.


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