You cannot assume that all people should know that you do not swim or wade in fresh water in Florida.
....unless it's a pool, and even then you better check for an alligator first.

Disney should not have beach access to the lagoons. I thought it was stupid when I saw them in April 2015....walked that whole area.

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@audioidkid

That is why you have no swimming signs, which they did.

The signs didn't say "Don't go more than 5 feet into the water".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

if only there was a good guy with a gun around to shoot it

Do you ever speed?

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Yes.

I understand that it creates a more dangerous situation though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Brick, c'mon we know you love debate, but seriously? I like you as a poster, but your stance is bordering on morbid.

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There is nothing morbid about it.

We don't have to act like it was the right decision to ignore the fact that there was something dangerous about going in that water just because it didn't specifically say "GATORS" and it instead said "No swimming".

I'm not saying the parents are horrible people or anything. They made a mistake. To assume that any water that says "No Swimming" is safe to enter doesn't make sense.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Some keep asking how much Disney is required to warn people of... and then bringing up extreme examples like mosquitoes.

However, the reality is there are answers to that question. Our tort laws have reviewed cases like this for hundreds of years, and we as a society have determined that there is a very large burden for places like Disney World to SPECIFICALLY notify any guests of known dangers that are controllable. Clearly, Disney knew about the gators, did nothing to remove them, and only had "no swimming" signs to deter guests from going in the water.

Anyway, my point is that, as with many issues, this does not have to be an all-or-nothing proposition where they have to warn you of every danger or none. It is based on years of experience in deliberating such matters and determining what the reasonable duties owed to others are in different situations.

I'm not going to pretend to be familiar with Florida case law or even the minutia of this circumstance, but based on what we know, I have a hard time believing that Disney wouldn't be found to be nearly 100% negligent for not separating their invited guests from such a clear danger and for creating attractive nuisances like beaches on those same waters.

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Yes, it does. It doesn't make sense to you. To someone else, it could mean any number of things. And you're kind of acting like the result was of some minor consequence like a fine. A kid got dragged into the water by an alligator. That warrants more than "No Swimming." And apparently, Disney now agrees since they're updating all their signs.

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There is nothing that a "no swimming" sign can mean that isn't that there is at least some danger in entering the water.

I just want you to admit that when there is a "no swimming" sign that there is at least some notice posted of potential danger and it is not a good idea to enter the water. People are acting like the parents had no reason to believe there was any danger in this water. That just isn't true. At least when I saw at Disney, they made it clear that the only water you are supposed to go in to is the swimming pools even with resorts that have natural water around it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

But I don't agree with that. "No Swimming" could mean, off the top of my head...

- We don't want you bringing certain types of bacteria to these waters
- There is an additional fee to swim in these waters
- People swimming in these waters affects the "scene" of the waters


Additionally, he didn't swim. He stood.

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All three of those things would be just as true about standing in the water.

So, if they really thought that it was about any of those things then they shouldn't have let him in there.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The no swimming signs were never intended for gators, they stemmed from rental boats.

But it didn't say "DANGER: Boats"!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Correct, it simply advocated against exercising in these waters. No sign of danger what so ever.

One thing that came out of this thread is that I've lost a lot of respect for Brick's level of intelligence. He really comes off like an idiot here.



you guys enjoy, I spend enough time dealing with idiots as it is and usually I get paid at the end.

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Is this discussion really still going on? How far will Rick go to defend these billionaires? I get the feeling that if Roy Disney Jr. beat the fuck out of Frank and his wife on Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Rick would say that it is Disney's Land and if Frank doesn't like he should go to Universal next time instead.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I disagree with shakes. My perception of Rick's intelligence remains unchanged.

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I already said that Disney would most certainly lose a court case here though they will likely settle quickly.

I'm just saying that you shouldn't go in water that says "no swimming" even if you only go up to your belly button.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not reading through eight pages of this, and I loathe Disney, but Rick's right here. The parents have more of a responsibility/are in the wrong than most want to admit. No swimming means stay the F out of the water, period. Personally, I would have seen the signs and assumed that at the very minimum, the water wasn't clean, certainly not clean enough for a toddler.

And fwiw, please no one get hung up on Disney's new signs after the fact. That cannot be admitted in the upcoming court case.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

It has a beach, RR. I wouldn't think no swimming meant anything but no swimming.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Or that piling on the parents who watched their son get killed by an alligator isn't worth it.

I'll get hung up on whatever I'd like. What do ya' think about that?!

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Look like I'm not "Mr. Literal" in this thread.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Would you have gotten in the water that has a no swimming sign at dusk? Especially if there was a relatively clean pool steps away. Hell when we were kids all the park lagoon signs said "No Swimming". But every year some dumbassed kid would drown, or get some kind of infection from walking/trying to swim in that crap. Like the old saying goes, "you don't believe fat meat's greasy?!?" It/they are there for a reason, and in this case, "because" is enough.

Plus I have a childhood's fill of memories of cops/teachers/parents/etc., saying to me & friends: "What's the matter with you, can't you read? Get your simple ass the hell out of there. The signs are there for a reason/etc.."

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

However you get your jollies is fine by me.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Piling on, no. But they're just as culpable as the Cincinnati zoo parents.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Ayyyyyyye, you gotta problem with SomeGuy?

YES or NO?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Not impressed. I'm letting my kid jump the fence to wade in there.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!