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312player
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:38 pm 
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Almora has the glove, not sure he can hit...Contreras has a great arm, I like chances going forward.

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Juice's Lecture Notes
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:32 am 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
America wrote:
I like Schwarber (in the AL) but he is coming off a catastrophic knee injury. This isn't some fresh faced masher who's only problem is complete inability to play the field...there's a chance he is never the same because of that injury.

Almora is whatever, same with Contreras. I'd rather have Tim Anderson than both and nobody in their right mind would call Tim Anderson even remotely worthy of getting Chris Sale.

From then on I'm being sold on players in A+ and guys who are coming off TJ. Not interested, especially when Boston or the Dodgers loom with a lot more players who are a lot better than anything the Cubs have.


Rare day when I agree with a lot of that. I don't have great hopes of Almora, but think he could be a defense Cf with a chance his bat holds up and he is a plus player. I'm much more bullish on willson especially if he can hold his own defensively. His bat has been legit for over a year now.


Thing is, the Sox need superb defense like they need a third nut. They play 81 games a year in the bandbox (yes, it is a bandbox JORR) of US Cellular Field, and need to build their team like the Moneyball teams of the mid-to-late 2000's: Power hitting, on-base, and at least passable pitching. That's what got them to the playoffs in '05, and that is what their home ballpark commands, but for some reason they keep fighting against it, as though they can win despite their ballpark, instead of because of it.

They also need to get much better at evaluating talent, a standard circumvented at times by Jerry's loyalty.
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TurdFerguson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:42 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
America wrote:
I like Schwarber (in the AL) but he is coming off a catastrophic knee injury. This isn't some fresh faced masher who's only problem is complete inability to play the field...there's a chance he is never the same because of that injury.

Almora is whatever, same with Contreras. I'd rather have Tim Anderson than both and nobody in their right mind would call Tim Anderson even remotely worthy of getting Chris Sale.

From then on I'm being sold on players in A+ and guys who are coming off TJ. Not interested, especially when Boston or the Dodgers loom with a lot more players who are a lot better than anything the Cubs have.


Rare day when I agree with a lot of that. I don't have great hopes of Almora, but think he could be a defense Cf with a chance his bat holds up and he is a plus player. I'm much more bullish on willson especially if he can hold his own defensively. His bat has been legit for over a year now.


Thing is, the Sox need superb defense like they need a third nut. They play 81 games a year in the bandbox (yes, it is a bandbox JORR) of US Cellular Field, and need to build their team like the Moneyball teams of the mid-to-late 2000's: Power hitting, on-base, and at least passable pitching. That's what got them to the playoffs in '05, and that is what their home ballpark commands, but for some reason they keep fighting against it, as though they can win despite their ballpark, instead of because of it.

They also need to get much better at evaluating talent, a standard circumvented at times by Jerry's loyalty.


Infields are all the same size. I'm amazed at the difference the Cubs infield is making this year with making the pitchers look good.

aside from eaton, isn't the sox defense still a tire fire?
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Frank Coztansa
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:27 am 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Come on Frank, Theo isn't offering that and Hahn would be hung up on for even suggesting Bryant's name.
If Theo is asking for Sale, he would be the one to get hung up on for saying Bryant is untouchable.

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Kirkwood
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:51 am 
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Kris Bryant is a better player than Chris Sale.
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America
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:11 am 
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Sale is pretty overrated but league perception is what matters on the trade market and league perception is that Sale is the premier American League pitcher.
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Brick
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:16 am 
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The history of trades with Theo with the Cubs pretty much comes with him getting a great deal while the other side gets pretty much nothing. If Theo is willing to part with a guy I don't want him.

Good for him for doing it but the track record of looking like a dope for trading with Theo with the Cubs is pretty clear. No reason to sign up to be the next person who looks dumb when Theo dumps the guys he doesn't really want.

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TurdFerguson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:20 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The history of trades with Theo with the Cubs pretty much comes with him getting a great deal while the other side gets pretty much nothing. If Theo is willing to part with a guy I don't want him.

Good for him for doing it but the track record of looking like a dope for trading with Theo with the Cubs is pretty clear. No reason to sign up to be the next person who looks dumb when Theo dumps the guys he doesn't really want.


Very true, but until now he was the seller in a sellers market. Now that they are contenders, we have to wait and see if he can pull the same magic as the buyer. You know there is a decent list of GM's waiting to fleece Theo for prior trades.
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Kirkwood
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:23 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The history of trades with Theo with the Cubs pretty much comes with him getting a great deal while the other side gets pretty much nothing. If Theo is willing to part with a guy I don't want him.

Good for him for doing it but the track record of looking like a dope for trading with Theo with the Cubs is pretty clear. No reason to sign up to be the next person who looks dumb when Theo dumps the guys he doesn't really want.

DJ LeMay-hyooooooooo for Ian Stewart :x
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pittmike
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:26 am 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The history of trades with Theo with the Cubs pretty much comes with him getting a great deal while the other side gets pretty much nothing. If Theo is willing to part with a guy I don't want him.

Good for him for doing it but the track record of looking like a dope for trading with Theo with the Cubs is pretty clear. No reason to sign up to be the next person who looks dumb when Theo dumps the guys he doesn't really want.


Very true, but until now he was the seller in a sellers market. Now that they are contenders, we have to wait and see if he can pull the same magic as the buyer. You know there is a decent list of GM's waiting to fleece Theo for prior trades.


Yes. Being a buyer is harder.

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312player
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:01 am 
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Epstein lost the Castro and Lemaheiu trades. Sale would be Kershaw in the NL and Bosio > Cooper.

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TurdFerguson
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:13 am 
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312player wrote:
Epstein lost the Castro and Lemaheiu trades. Sale would be Kershaw in the NL and Bosio > Cooper.


Castro :shock: Yankees owe 37 million over the next 4 years for what fangraphs has rated the 2nd worst second basemen in baseball. His slash line is .250/.285/.406. Both have been equally bad, but one is young and cheap.

Lemaheiu absolutely.
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Rod
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:31 am 
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312player wrote:
Sale would be Kershaw in the NL


Are you suggesting the AL is better than the NL?

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312player
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:34 am 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
312player wrote:
Epstein lost the Castro and Lemaheiu trades. Sale would be Kershaw in the NL and Bosio > Cooper.


Castro :shock: Yankees owe 37 million over the next 4 years for what fangraphs has rated the 2nd worst second basemen in baseball. His slash line is .250/.285/.406. Both have been equally bad, but one is young and cheap.

Lemaheiu absolutely.




Wow..haven't followed him since trade, didn't Know. He's hit that poorly.

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Kirkwood
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:34 am 
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Facing a pitcher instead of professional hitter will improve Sale's statistics.


Last edited by Kirkwood on Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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312player
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:35 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
Sale would be Kershaw in the NL


Are you suggesting the AL is better than the NL?




I've been saying that for a decade at least.

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Rod
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:37 am 
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312player wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
Sale would be Kershaw in the NL


Are you suggesting the AL is better than the NL?




I've been saying that for a decade at least.


So where do the Cubs fit in the big picture?

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Rod
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:38 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Facing a pitcher instead of professional hitter will improve Sale's statistics.


This seems like an argument for W/L record. Of course his stats are likely to improve, but he won't be a better pitcher. He'll be the same guy with better numbers. The stat that counts will be unaffected.

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312player
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:39 am 
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Good question..hope to find out in October against Texas Rangers or Boston Red Sox.

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312player
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:40 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Facing a pitcher instead of professional hitter will improve Sale's statistics.




That's part of it, but there is more to it...how do you think Kyle Hendricks would do in the AL?

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Bagels
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:24 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
312player wrote:
Sale would be Kershaw in the NL


Are you suggesting the AL is better than the NL?


i love how Hawk says he doesn't follow the NL
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Rod
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:28 am 
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312player wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Facing a pitcher instead of professional hitter will improve Sale's statistics.




That's part of it, but there is more to it...how do you think Kyle Hendricks would do in the AL?



I think he'd be fine. He's a winning type pitcher. He's been a winner wherever he's been at every level. He went 7-2 for a 73 win team. I know the modern conventional wisdom is that he's lucky. Maybe he just gets a lot of "run support".

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Kirkwood
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:29 am 
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312player wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Facing a pitcher instead of professional hitter will improve Sale's statistics.




That's part of it, but there is more to it...how do you think Kyle Hendricks would do in the AL?

Just fine. If you can pitch you can play.

A soft tossing goof with a knuckleball is the best pitcher in the AL right now.
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Keyser Soze
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:41 am 
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They're not trading Sale but if they were Pittsburgh would be the first call. Their system is absolutely loaded with top shelf talent.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I think he'd be fine. He's a winning type pitcher. He's been a winner wherever he's been at every level. He went 7-2 for a 73 win team. I know the modern conventional wisdom is that he's lucky.


:roll: This isn't even good trolling. Sale has been a little BABIP-lucky, but nothing like what Kyle Hendricks was doing earlier in the season (sub-.240 BABIP), and his HR/FB rate is a little low, but again, nothing that would indicate a pending regression towards league/career means.

Quote:
Maybe he just gets a lot of "run support".


Over the last three years, the Sox average 4.16 Runs/Game when Sale starts, 4.8 this year alone.
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Rod
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:19 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I think he'd be fine. He's a winning type pitcher. He's been a winner wherever he's been at every level. He went 7-2 for a 73 win team. I know the modern conventional wisdom is that he's lucky.


:roll: This isn't even good trolling. Sale has been a little BABIP-lucky, but nothing like what Kyle Hendricks was doing earlier in the season (sub-.240 BABIP), and his HR/FB rate is a little low, but again, nothing that would indicate a pending regression towards league/career means.

Quote:
Maybe he just gets a lot of "run support".


Over the last three years, the Sox average 4.16 Runs/Game when Sale starts, 4.8 this year alone.



What are you on about? I didn't say a thing about Sale. I'm talking about Kyle Hendricks. I think he'd do fine in any league in the world. I don't believe it's an accident that Hendricks posts winning records wherever he goes. It's fine if you do. I realize I can't change your mind. And I will add the caveat that Hendricks' major league body of work is small. He may have reached his level of incompetence. If so, that will show up as he goes.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:02 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I think he'd be fine. He's a winning type pitcher. He's been a winner wherever he's been at every level. He went 7-2 for a 73 win team. I know the modern conventional wisdom is that he's lucky.


:roll: This isn't even good trolling. Sale has been a little BABIP-lucky, but nothing like what Kyle Hendricks was doing earlier in the season (sub-.240 BABIP), and his HR/FB rate is a little low, but again, nothing that would indicate a pending regression towards league/career means.

Quote:
Maybe he just gets a lot of "run support".


Over the last three years, the Sox average 4.16 Runs/Game when Sale starts, 4.8 this year alone.



What are you on about? I didn't say a thing about Sale. I'm talking about Kyle Hendricks. I think he'd do fine in any league in the world. I don't believe it's an accident that Hendricks posts winning records wherever he goes. It's fine if you do. I realize I can't change your mind. And I will add the caveat that Hendricks' major league body of work is small. He may have reached his level of incompetence. If so, that will show up as he goes.


Shit. Thought you were talking about Sale instead of Hendricks, read the wrong quoted post. My bad! :oops:
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Matches Malone
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:02 pm 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
312player wrote:
Epstein lost the Castro and Lemaheiu trades. Sale would be Kershaw in the NL and Bosio > Cooper.


Castro :shock: Yankees owe 37 million over the next 4 years for what fangraphs has rated the 2nd worst second basemen in baseball. His slash line is .250/.285/.406. Both have been equally bad, but one is young and cheap.

Lemaheiu absolutely.

The Castro deal was a salary dump more than anything. If you believe what was reported, Castro's contract had to be moved in order to sign Zobrist. Sure you want Warren to be successful but I think he was always meant to be a bonus.

Theo definitely struck out on the Ian Stewart trade and the Edwin Jackson signing. No denying that.
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Frank Coztansa
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:40 am 
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Bagels wrote:
i love how Hawk says he doesn't follow the NL
He barely follows the White Sox.

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