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 Post subject: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:48 am 
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I wanted to post this in that RPB income poll thread, but I couldn't find it. I am attaching the link, since I can't get the graphs to paste over. I suggest you look at the colorful graph as it illustrates the point of the article quite well. Clearly, more than the top 1% are benefiting from the current U.S. economic environment, but it is still a relatively modest minority of people.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/06/21/not-just-the-1-the-upper-middle-class-is-larger-and-richer-than-ever/



Real Time Economics Inequality

Not Just the 1%: The Upper Middle Class Is Larger and Richer Than Ever
Research shows the number of upper middle class households has more than doubled since 1979
The upper middle class is now much larger and richer than economists had initially expected. ENLARGE
The upper middle class is now much larger and richer than economists had initially expected. Photo: David McNew/Getty Images
By Josh Zumbrun
Jun 21, 2016 3:00 am ET
277 COMMENTS

A range of data after the recession and the housing bust supported the idea that only a tiny elite of U.S. society, generally seen as the top 1%, had rebounded and was doing well.

But a growing body of evidence suggests the economic expansion since the 2007-2009 financial crisis has enriched a much larger swath of the upper middle class, and that a deeper income divide is developing between that top quarter or so of the population and everyone else.

The latest piece of evidence comes from economist Stephen Rose of the Urban Institute, who finds in new research that the upper middle class in the U.S. is larger and richer than it’s ever been. He finds the upper middle class has expanded from about 12% of the population in 1979 to a new record of nearly 30% as of 2014.

“Any discussion of inequality that is limited to the 1% misses a lot of the picture because it ignores the large inequality between the growing upper middle class and the middle and lower middle classes,” said Mr. Rose. The Urban Institute is a nonpartisan policy research group.

There is no standard definition of the upper middle class. Many researchers have defined the group as households or families with incomes in the top 20%, excluding the top 1% or 2%. Mr. Rose, by contrast, uses a more dynamic method similar to how researchers calculate the poverty rate, which allows for growth or shrinkage over time, and adjusts for family size.

Using Census Bureau data available through 2014, he defines the upper middle class as any household earning $100,000 to $350,000 for a family of three: at least double the U.S. median household income and about five times the poverty level. At the same time, they are quite distinct from the richest households. Instead of inheritors of dynastic wealth or the chief executives of large companies, they are likely middle-managers or professionals in business, law or medicine with bachelors and especially advanced degrees.

Smaller households can earn somewhat less to be classified as upper middle-class; larger households need to earn somewhat more.

Mr. Rose adjusts these thresholds for inflation back to 1979 and finds the population earning this much money has never been so large. One could quibble with his exact thresholds or with the adjustment that he uses for inflation. But using different measures of inflation, or using higher income thresholds for the upper-middle class, produces the same result: substantial growth among this group since the 1970s.

Mr. Rose’s new paper is part of a broader body of research reappraising and seeking to measure the upper middle class. This reappraisal does not fit comfortably in the left or the right’s political narratives. While it underscores the growth of American economic inequality, it undermines the idea of lower and upper-middle class voters being in the same boat. It suggests that the majority of Americans have indeed struggled but that a large minority has thrived.

Research from Sean Reardon of Stanford University and Kendra Bischoff of Cornell University, for example, found in research published in March that the number of families living in affluent neighborhoods has more than doubled, to 16% of the population in 2012 from 7% in 1980. They define these neighborhoods as those where the median income is at least 50% higher than the rest of the city.

The Pew Research Center last month found that 203 metropolitan areas have seen their middle class shrink, but in 172 of those cities, the shrinkage was in part due to the growth in wealthier families. (In 160 of the cities, the share of lower-income families grew as well.) So Pew found the middle class shrinking from both ends – not just from families falling below the middle class, but also because of families rising out.

Richard Reeves, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a centrist think tank, is writing a book called “Dream Hoarders” that looks at the way upper-middle class families perpetuate their status across generations, in ways that can sometimes be harmful to middle- or lower middle-class families. Mr. Reeves argues that many of the social anxieties and resentments against inequality are in fact driven by what he calls “the dangerous separation” between middle and upper-middle income families.

Take high housing costs or the soaring costs of higher education. The spread of $3,000-a-month apartments or a national average $32,000-a-year college tuition bill is not driven by heirs or CEOs renting dozens of apartments or sending dozens of children to college. It’s driven by millions of upper middle class families with enough income to foot those bills, Mr. Reeves said.

“It’s true the top 1% or top .1% have galloped away more quickly,” Mr. Reeves said, but ignoring the role of the upper middle class “gets in the way of an honest conversation about what’s happening with American inequality.”

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:45 am 
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There are a lot of places in the U.S. where an income of $100,000 for a family of three is definitively not upper middle class.

Also, the entire definition of "middle class" has become problematic given the emergence of long-term wage stagnation. Median household income does not align with what we have historically understood as an "American middle class" standard of living.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:49 am 
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The incomes are adjusted for inflation, and they address the issue of why they picked the brackets. $100k was used because it is twice median household income and five times the poverty line.

Those expensive places were that way back in 1980 as well, remember adjusted for inflation.

The entire point is that the economy is benefiting one rather modestly sized swath of society that doesn't fit neatly into the one percenter meme. Our society is not a bell curve of incomes.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:12 pm 
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But "median income" is here a problematic term given the issue of wage stagnation--that is, a median household income aligned more closely with a "middle class lifestyle" in the 1980s than it does today.

Of course our economy is disproportionately benefiting a small group of people. This is the entire point of neoliberalism. The problem of inequality is worse than this article suggests.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:15 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Those expensive places were that way back in 1980 as well, remember adjusted for inflation.

That's not true.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:22 pm 
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It's like arguing about the reported unemployment rate. It measures exactly what it purports to measure. Median income is simple methodology. If you're arguing that today's median income doesn't buy what it did in 1980, then fine. A whole host of things are cheaper than they were back then, notably computers, tvs, and food. And now we buy many things that didn't exist back then like cell phones, internet access, and extremely large houses. College costs and health care are probably two of the biggest drivers killing the middle class. People also waste a lot of money eating out.

I am a huge believer in free markets, free trade, limited government, etc. When a society with 4% of the population has over 20% of the world's output, I'd say that is pretty successful. And yet we fail in so many areas, especially in educating the average person for a career track. All societies have a privilieged class. Our goal needs to be widening the middle portion of the distribution.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:23 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Those expensive places were that way back in 1980 as well, remember adjusted for inflation.

That's not true.


Mr Drummond's Park Avenue Place looked pretty expensive to me back in 1980.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Those expensive places were that way back in 1980 as well, remember adjusted for inflation.

That's not true.

I certainly wouldn't think so either ... I'd like to see some objective data to say one way or the other though.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:32 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Those expensive places were that way back in 1980 as well, remember adjusted for inflation.

That's not true.


Mr Drummond's Park Avenue Place looked pretty expensive to me back in 1980.

That's a poor counterpoint.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:36 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Those expensive places were that way back in 1980 as well, remember adjusted for inflation.

That's not true.


Mr Drummond's Park Avenue Place looked pretty expensive to me back in 1980.

That's a poor counterpoint.

He seemed pretty well-off to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:36 pm 
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The cost of living has gone up in places like San Fran and New York beyond income growth inclusive of inflation. It is a function of land locked areas in highly desirable locations with good job prospects. It is also a function of redevelopment of previously downtrodden neighborhoods. Look at Brooklyn.

But the people that live there are not the people that lived there in 1980. It is higher income tech and finance workers. Without them, housing prices would not have outpaced inflation. It is circular, the affluent move in driving up prices. Without the affluent those places would have remained downtrodden and cheaper to live.

I grew up in Schaumburg when it was still 60's 1,500 foot ranches and farms. Is it any shock that a 3,000 square foot house costs $500k or more in Schaumburg now? Sure it's more expensive to live, but you're comparing apples and oranges. The house was on farm land in 1980.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:37 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Those expensive places were that way back in 1980 as well, remember adjusted for inflation.

That's not true.


Mr Drummond's Park Avenue Place looked pretty expensive to me back in 1980.

That's a poor counterpoint.


I brought the article with data. And I added commentary in other posts. I think it's your job to bring the counter argument rather than simply saying "not true".

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:46 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
[I brought the article with data. And I added commentary in other posts. I think it's your job to bring the counter argument rather than simply saying "not true".

Ok, see below:

denisdman wrote:
The cost of living has gone up in places like San Fran and New York beyond income growth inclusive of inflation. It is a function of land locked areas in highly desirable locations with good job prospects. It is also a function of redevelopment of previously downtrodden neighborhoods. Look at Brooklyn.

But the people that live there are not the people that lived there in 1980. It is higher income tech and finance workers. Without them, housing prices would not have outpaced inflation. It is circular, the affluent move in driving up prices. Without the affluent those places would have remained downtrodden and cheaper to live.

I grew up in Schaumburg when it was still 60's 1,500 foot ranches and farms. Is it any shock that a 3,000 square foot house costs $500k or more in Schaumburg now? Sure it's more expensive to live, but you're comparing apples and oranges. The house was on farm land in 1980.

denisdman wrote:
Those expensive places were that way back in 1980 as well, remember adjusted for inflation.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:48 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Those expensive places were that way back in 1980 as well, remember adjusted for inflation.

That's not true.


Mr Drummond's Park Avenue Place looked pretty expensive to me back in 1980.

That's a poor counterpoint.


I brought the article with data. And I added commentary in other posts. I think it's your job to bring the counter argument rather than simply saying "not true".

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:54 pm 
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This is a helluva article and relates a lot to what you see being played out in this City. There is a chasm developing between middle and upper middle class within Chicago. Areas like the West and South loop, Wicker Park are perfect examples of what the article is describing. These areas are largely driven by the upper middle class. Though you wouldn't consider those living in such areas to be wealthy, they do enjoy a certain modicum of privilege. These areas were nothing like that 20-25 yrs ago. The middle class in this city do not have access to such areas for the most part.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:56 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
This is a helluva article and relates a lot to what you see being played out in this City. There is a chasm developing between middle and upper middle class within Chicago. Areas like the West and South loop, Wicker Park are perfect examples of what the article is describing. These areas are largely driven by the upper middle class. Though you wouldn't consider those living in such areas to be wealthy, they do enjoy a certain modicum of privilege. These areas were nothing like that 20-25 yrs ago. The middle class in this city do not have access to such areas for the most part.

http://chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=100735


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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 3:15 pm 
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Listen, you Malibu middle class Barbie piece of shit, I'm tryin' to work here. Work? You ever work? Yeah, I'll bet you have. Scoopin' ice cream to your shit-heel friends on summer break. Well I ain't talkin' about no goddamn white socks with Mickey Mouse on one side and Donald Duck on the other. I ain't readin' no funny books, mama. Our bodies come and go but this blood...is forever.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:15 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
But "median income" is here a problematic term given the issue of wage stagnation--that is, a median household income aligned more closely with a "middle class lifestyle" in the 1980s than it does today.

Of course our economy is disproportionately benefiting a small group of people. This is the entire point of neoliberalism. The problem of inequality is worse than this article suggests.

Income doesn't represent much of wealth, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:20 pm 
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Wealth = Chinese buying up real estate in London, Manhattan, Miami, et al and mothballing it as safe-havens for dollars.


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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:30 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
It's like arguing about the reported unemployment rate. It measures exactly what it purports to measure. Median income is simple methodology. If you're arguing that today's median income doesn't buy what it did in 1980, then fine. A whole host of things are cheaper than they were back then, notably computers, tvs, and food. And now we buy many things that didn't exist back then like cell phones, internet access, and extremely large houses. College costs and health care are probably two of the biggest drivers killing the middle class. People also waste a lot of money eating out.

I am a huge believer in free markets, free trade, limited government, etc. When a society with 4% of the population has over 20% of the world's output, I'd say that is pretty successful. And yet we fail in so many areas, especially in educating the average person for a career track. All societies have a privilieged class. Our goal needs to be widening the middle portion of the distribution.



Not to be overly simplistic but the old adage it isn't what you make it is what you keep works here. Sit back and try to imagine all of the things you spend money on now that you didn't in 1980. Not sure about you guys a lot of the things I consume or wants rather than needs. We went through this in the past when discussing the minimum wage. What is necessary? People may be further from the top 1% and not saving but you live a hell of a lot better than 1980.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:37 pm 
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we, all of us, pay a lot more for ephemera in 2016 than we did in 1980.

200$/month cell phone bill
200$/month cable/internet bills
parking tickets
fees of every flavor
multiple subscription services like spotify/netflix/chaturbate/apple TV/amazon prime/etc
taxes on those subscription services.
taxes on cell phone plans.

health care coverage/tuition as well, as noted above

and it's not just in the US and A, poor ass peeps in China without indoor plumbing fork over a large percentage of their monthly income for smart phones and data plans.

one thing the US has managed to do supremely well and cheap:

feed itself.

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-spends-less-f ... ps-1546945


Last edited by Hussra on Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:39 pm 
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We eat out several times a week. I am not talking Ruth's Chris either. When young I am lucky if we ordered pizza out once a month and had a couple trips to the Woolworth lunch counter or McD's.

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 Post subject: Re: Income Article
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:44 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
We eat out several times a week. I am not talking Ruth's Chris either. When young I am lucky if we ordered pizza out once a month and had a couple trips to the Woolworth lunch counter or McD's.
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