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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:15 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
The arrest numbers reflect who is committing the crimes.

No they reflect who gets arrested for committing crimes.

There are guys in our industry that break the law right up their nose every day. They dont get arrested. The guy smoking crack on 47th and King does get arrested.

Both committed crimes.

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If you're not white, it's not a level-playing field.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:03 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
The arrest numbers reflect who is committing the crimes.

No they reflect who gets arrested for committing crimes.

There are guys in our industry that break the law right up their nose every day. They dont get arrested. The guy smoking crack on 47th and King does get arrested.

Both committed crimes.


In terms of violent crime statistics show that the vast number of murders in urban areas are committed by blacks. That is the one statistic that disputes the notion that blacks and whites commit an equal number of crimes. There is a large discrepancy, even when the population of whites and blacks is nearly the same.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:44 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
The arrest numbers reflect who is committing the crimes.

No they reflect who gets arrested for committing crimes.

There are guys in our industry that break the law right up their nose every day. They dont get arrested. The guy smoking crack on 47th and King does get arrested.

Both committed crimes.


In terms of violent crime statistics show that the vast number of murders in urban areas are committed by blacks. That is the one statistic that disputes the notion that blacks and whites commit an equal number of crimes. There is a large discrepancy, even when the population of whites and blacks is nearly the same.

Im just pointinf out the fallacy in the statement "arrests reflect aho is committing crimes"


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:13 pm 
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LAKESHIRE • A former Affton High School football standout forced his way into a South County home and was shot and killed by an off-duty officer inside after a Facebook dispute over Black Lives Matter apparently boiled over late Saturday afternoon.

That's what can be pieced together from the accounts of police and an uncle of Tyler Gebhard, who said the young man had been struggling with mental health issues.

"He walked over there and into a gunfight," Gebhard's uncle, Patrick Brogan said, drawing on accounts offered by friends of his nephew. "When he got there, he was met with a gun and the guy killed him."

Authorities said Gebhard, 20, and the officer were acquainted, and Gebhard made Facebook threats to the officer's family and “uninvolved members of the community” in advance of the Saturday encounter with the unidentified officer.

Gebhard threw a 50-pound concrete planter through the window and entered the Lakeshire residence as the officer's wife, mother-in-law and two young children struggled to escape through a bedroom window, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said. The off-duty officer shot and killed Gebhard.

"I don’t think the officer had a choice — I honestly don’t,” Belmar told reporters on Saturday, labeling the situation “a very difficult position to be in.”

Lakeshire, with about 1,400 residents, has just 11 streets and is 0.2 square miles. In November, officers shot and killed a man in the tiny community after he attacked family members with a hammer and knife.
Sports, and struggles

Gebhard was remembered Sunday as an athlete who excelled at football as well as golf.

The Affton School District website notes that Gebhard received the Howard Foundation of St. Louis Scholarship prior to his 2014 high school graduation. The scholarship was awarded by the United Negro College Fund.

"He was a sweetheart," said Nikki Toal, a family friend and resident of Waterloo. "The nicest person you could ever meet."

The 2014 graduate of Affton High was a running back and linebacker.

“Tyler was a good student and a good athlete,” said Dan Oliver, head football coach and athletic director at Affton High School.

But Gebhard waged a long battle with bi-polar disorder, according to his uncle.

"He was like a normal 20-year-old, (the family) had to stay on him to take his medication," said Brogan, also of Waterloo.

The uncle said the disorder worsened during Gebhard's first year at Southeast Missouri State University in Cape Girardeau. The 6-foot-1, 220-pound Gebhard was listed as a walk-on fullback on the Redhawks' 2015 spring football roster, but didn't play in any games, according to the Southeast Missourian newspaper.

"He had a lot of mental problems the last few months," Brogan said. "A lot of difficulties in life."
Break-in, shooting

Brogan said Gebhard and the police officer he befriended at a local church had clashed recently on Facebook over his nephew's support of Black Lives Matter.

Gebhard, who was biracial, supported the cause but was not an active participant in the protest movement, the uncle said.

His Facebook page contains numerous posts about police shootings of black men and the deaths of five officers in Dallas at the hands of a gunman targeting white officers. Some devolve into heated arguments and warnings of a "race war." Some posts are conciliatory, calling for black and white people to come together. One shows an image of a candle burning for the fallen Dallas officers.

But an online disagreement over the issues brought Gebhard to the Lakeshire home shortly before 6 p.m.

Belmar said Gebhard tossed the planter through the back window after being rebuffed by the officer's wife at the front door. She hid with other family members, including a toddler and an infant, as the off-duty officer went to check on the disturbance.

Members of the family in the bedroom said they heard the officer tell the intruder to “get down, get down, get down,” and then heard several shots fired, Belmar said.

Gebhard was shot twice in the chest. He was pronounced dead at St. Anthony’s Hospital.

The officer is a three-year veteran of the department who is now on administrative leave, Belmar said.

Gebhard lived in the 7900 block of Navajoe Street in the Affton area.

Brogan said the circumstances of his nephew's death are all the more painful because several members of Gebhard's extended family are in law enforcement.

"We are sick for both families because it was senseless," Brogan said. "It was a senseless death."

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:17 pm 
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Why didn't he just taser him?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:18 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
LAKESHIRE • A former Affton High School football standout forced his way into a South County home and was shot and killed by an off-duty officer inside after a Facebook dispute over Black Lives Matter apparently boiled over late Saturday afternoon.

That's what can be pieced together from the accounts of police and an uncle of Tyler Gebhard, who said the young man had been struggling with mental health issues.

"He walked over there and into a gunfight," Gebhard's uncle, Patrick Brogan said, drawing on accounts offered by friends of his nephew. "When he got there, he was met with a gun and the guy killed him."

Authorities said Gebhard, 20, and the officer were acquainted, and Gebhard made Facebook threats to the officer's family and “uninvolved members of the community” in advance of the Saturday encounter with the unidentified officer.

Gebhard threw a 50-pound concrete planter through the window and entered the Lakeshire residence as the officer's wife, mother-in-law and two young children struggled to escape through a bedroom window, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said. The off-duty officer shot and killed Gebhard.

"I don’t think the officer had a choice — I honestly don’t,” Belmar told reporters on Saturday, labeling the situation “a very difficult position to be in.”

Lakeshire, with about 1,400 residents, has just 11 streets and is 0.2 square miles. In November, officers shot and killed a man in the tiny community after he attacked family members with a hammer and knife.
Sports, and struggles

Gebhard was remembered Sunday as an athlete who excelled at football as well as golf.

The Affton School District website notes that Gebhard received the Howard Foundation of St. Louis Scholarship prior to his 2014 high school graduation. The scholarship was awarded by the United Negro College Fund.

"He was a sweetheart," said Nikki Toal, a family friend and resident of Waterloo. "The nicest person you could ever meet."

The 2014 graduate of Affton High was a running back and linebacker.

“Tyler was a good student and a good athlete,” said Dan Oliver, head football coach and athletic director at Affton High School.

But Gebhard waged a long battle with bi-polar disorder, according to his uncle.

"He was like a normal 20-year-old, (the family) had to stay on him to take his medication," said Brogan, also of Waterloo.

The uncle said the disorder worsened during Gebhard's first year at Southeast Missouri State University in Cape Girardeau. The 6-foot-1, 220-pound Gebhard was listed as a walk-on fullback on the Redhawks' 2015 spring football roster, but didn't play in any games, according to the Southeast Missourian newspaper.

"He had a lot of mental problems the last few months," Brogan said. "A lot of difficulties in life."
Break-in, shooting

Brogan said Gebhard and the police officer he befriended at a local church had clashed recently on Facebook over his nephew's support of Black Lives Matter.

Gebhard, who was biracial, supported the cause but was not an active participant in the protest movement, the uncle said.

His Facebook page contains numerous posts about police shootings of black men and the deaths of five officers in Dallas at the hands of a gunman targeting white officers. Some devolve into heated arguments and warnings of a "race war." Some posts are conciliatory, calling for black and white people to come together. One shows an image of a candle burning for the fallen Dallas officers.

But an online disagreement over the issues brought Gebhard to the Lakeshire home shortly before 6 p.m.

Belmar said Gebhard tossed the planter through the back window after being rebuffed by the officer's wife at the front door. She hid with other family members, including a toddler and an infant, as the off-duty officer went to check on the disturbance.

Members of the family in the bedroom said they heard the officer tell the intruder to “get down, get down, get down,” and then heard several shots fired, Belmar said.

Gebhard was shot twice in the chest. He was pronounced dead at St. Anthony’s Hospital.

The officer is a three-year veteran of the department who is now on administrative leave, Belmar said.

Gebhard lived in the 7900 block of Navajoe Street in the Affton area.

Brogan said the circumstances of his nephew's death are all the more painful because several members of Gebhard's extended family are in law enforcement.

"We are sick for both families because it was senseless," Brogan said. "It was a senseless death."

No lives matter.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:04 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Why didn't he just taser him?


Because he would have survived.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:29 am 
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Nas wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Why didn't he just taser him?


Because he would have survived.


Dead men tell no tales.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:46 am 
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Chus wrote:
Dead men tell no tales.


and a wise man tells no lies!

also btw, in that last story about the kid who got shot when facebook beef boiled over into "the real world" and he broke into a house to confront someone--- yeah dude, holy shit i think it's obviously unfortunate-to-deplorable that the dude is dead.... but when you talk about "mental problems" man.... going all jay and silent bob strike back* about people who pissed you off with internet comments to the point where you're breaking and entering into a house to track down someone who talked shit to you online = you're kind of asking for something bad to happen, and in this case.... man. #RIP dude.

** = at the end of the movie "jay and silent bob strike back" once they get their "movie check" and save the day, the first thing they do with all their newfound $$$ is fly around america tracking down ppl who made nasty comments about them on the internet so they can beat them up for talking shit on the internet. obviously i reference this for the sake of levity, but yeah what happened here is some kind of not-hilarious and downright awful IMO.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:29 am 
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should have offered him a cup of tea and some cookies.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:06 am 
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New study finds no racial bias in police shootings: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/up ... tings.html

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:30 am 
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Nas wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Why didn't he just taser him?


Because he would have survived.

Would he have a taser at home? (That's not rhetorical; I have no idea.)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:24 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Nas wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Why didn't he just taser him?


Because he would have survived.

Would he have a taser at home? (That's not rhetorical; I have no idea.)


I was just messing with rogue. The guy got what he deserved.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Nas wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Nas wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
Why didn't he just taser him?


Because he would have survived.

Would he have a taser at home? (That's not rhetorical; I have no idea.)


I was just messing with rogue. The guy got what he deserved.

Ok. I was trying real hard to be open-minded, but when someone attacks your family....

Of course, this particular case seems to be about mental illness as much as anything else. F'ing epidemic in this country.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:31 pm 
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http://www.clickhole.com/article/devast ... e-sho-4607

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:37 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
http://www.clickhole.com/article/devastating-guy-knows-exactly-how-black-people-sho-4607


The author of that article should be tasered.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:32 pm 
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/07/11/micah-johnson-was-blacklisted-by-black-power-groups-as-unstable.html

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:38 pm 
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From these rigorous thought experiments, he was able to develop a series of techniques, such as “being civil” and “following the rules,” that could help African Americans prevent the police from harming them


Smarm at the white guy condescending to an entire race of people aside...you think one of the two guys killed shouldn't have reached for his illegal firearm when police were grappling with him? Especially when one has a history of gun charges, and is dealing with police called to the scene because of someone (you) brandishing a gun at someone else?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:58 am 
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I was in the middle of the protest at Federal Plaza yesterday. I stopped and listened for a while.

It was ironic because I agree with much of what they had to say. At the same time, I ran into a police woman friend of mine working the protest and I had to think that I supported her as well. This is the conflicting sentiments I have had throughout.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:52 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I was in the middle of the protest at Federal Plaza yesterday. I stopped and listened for a while.

It was ironic because I agree with much of what they had to say. At the same time, I ran into a police woman friend of mine working the protest and I had to think that I supported her as well. This is the conflicting sentiments I have had throughout.


Your ass has to be pretty sore from riding the fence. I'm probably 70% in agreement with the protesters and 20% in agreement with the cops and undecided on the final 10%.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:59 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I was in the middle of the protest at Federal Plaza yesterday. I stopped and listened for a while.

It was ironic because I agree with much of what they had to say. At the same time, I ran into a police woman friend of mine working the protest and I had to think that I supported her as well. This is the conflicting sentiments I have had throughout.


Your ass has to be pretty sore from riding the fence. I'm probably 70% in agreement with the protesters and 20% in agreement with the cops and undecided on the final 10%.



I don't think the choice is necessarily binary. Meaning, your percentages don't have to add up to 100%. It's not a zero sum game where one side has to win. There are things both sides would agree on. These might include things like:

-Better outreach between the communities and law enforcement in that area,
-Improved educational and job opportunities in impacted communities,
-Clearer standards on when deadly force could/should be used.

I mean MANY want some version of the same outcome- citizens not getting shot and cops not getting shot.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:15 am 
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denisdman wrote:
I mean MANY want some version of the same outcome- citizens not getting shot and cops not getting shot.


Of course I would rather nobody get shot. But if you made me pick one, I'd tend to think police officers getting shot at/shot is in some odd way more palatable than unarmed and/or nonviolent civilians.

And whatever the ratio, we need to contract the definition of what constitutes "reasonable fear for life", whether that comes legislatively or judicially, reaching into one's waistband should not be justifiable reason for surrounding officers to dump entire magazines into you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:16 am 
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Being a cop is a job. Dolphin's cop friend can take off her uniform and not endure all the profiling that goes with the uniform. A black person can't elect to not be black.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:22 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I mean MANY want some version of the same outcome- citizens not getting shot and cops not getting shot.


Of course I would rather nobody get shot. But if you made me pick one, I'd tend to think police officers getting shot at/shot is in some odd way more palatable than unarmed and/or nonviolent civilians.

And whatever the ratio, we need to contract the definition of what constitutes "reasonable fear for life", whether that comes legislatively or judicially, reaching into one's waistband should not be justifiable reason for surrounding officers to dump entire magazines into you.


My entire point is that you don't have to pick. Of course the opportunistic politicians and activists want us to take sides. There are clearly massive problems in the justice system and with the social fabric of this nation.

If you look at how many people we lock up, it is many multiples of other developed countries. When you loo at the percentages among black males, it is alarming. When you look at gun violence (Chicago Tribune site every day), it should shock us all. If you hear the tone of the broader political discussion on CNN and other outlets, there is nothing but spin.

Edit: Just read this. I get the print publication. I liked it. From someone who believes in the ideals of the U.S Constitution but had every right not to do so.

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/freedom- ... t-address/

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:53 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I was in the middle of the protest at Federal Plaza yesterday. I stopped and listened for a while.

It was ironic because I agree with much of what they had to say. At the same time, I ran into a police woman friend of mine working the protest and I had to think that I supported her as well. This is the conflicting sentiments I have had throughout.


Your ass has to be pretty sore from riding the fence. I'm probably 70% in agreement with the protesters and 20% in agreement with the cops and undecided on the final 10%.


I'll get you a seat cushion because I'm of a similar mind. It's not difficult to be against civil rights violations by the man.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:00 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
Being a cop is a job. Dolphin's cop friend can take off her uniform and not endure all the profiling that goes with the uniform. A black person can't elect to not be black.


I'm not looking to weight pain. You don't think they live with their jobs even beyond how the rest of us have to live with our jobs?

They have increased risks of all sorts of mental/social/domestic that can be related back to the job.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:02 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I mean MANY want some version of the same outcome- citizens not getting shot and cops not getting shot.


Of course I would rather nobody get shot. But if you made me pick one, I'd tend to think police officers getting shot at/shot is in some odd way more palatable than unarmed and/or nonviolent civilians.

And whatever the ratio, we need to contract the definition of what constitutes "reasonable fear for life", whether that comes legislatively or judicially, reaching into one's waistband should not be justifiable reason for surrounding officers to dump entire magazines into you.


My entire point is that you don't have to pick. Of course the opportunistic politicians and activists want us to take sides. There are clearly massive problems in the justice system and with the social fabric of this nation./


Emmanuel made this point yesterday as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:05 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
Being a cop is a job. Dolphin's cop friend can take off her uniform and not endure all the profiling that goes with the uniform. A black person can't elect to not be black.



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:07 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Being a cop is a job. Dolphin's cop friend can take off her uniform and not endure all the profiling that goes with the uniform. A black person can't elect to not be black.


I'm not looking to weight pain. You don't think they live with their jobs even beyond how the rest of us have to live with our jobs?

No, I know they do. My fairly simplistic point is that they are afforded the luxury of not being a cop in public. #bluelivesmatter and #blacklivesmatter are not apples and apples.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:13 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Telegram Sam wrote:
Being a cop is a job. Dolphin's cop friend can take off her uniform and not endure all the profiling that goes with the uniform. A black person can't elect to not be black.


I'm not looking to weight pain. You don't think they live with their jobs even beyond how the rest of us have to live with our jobs?

No, I know they do. My fairly simplistic point is that they are afforded the luxury of not being a cop in public. #bluelivesmatter and #blacklivesmatter are not apples and apples.


I know. I'm supportive of the concept of Black Lives Matter as a group to the exclusion of others.

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