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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:54 pm 
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Ta-Nehisi Coates with another great article on this topic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ce/490541/

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The Near Certainty of Anti-Police Violence
By ignoring illegitimate policing, America has also failed to address the danger this illegitimacy poses to those who must do the policing.

TA-NEHISI COATES 5:39 PM ET POLITICS
Subscribe to The Atlantic’s Politics & Policy Daily, a roundup of ideas and events in American politics.

Last month, the Obama administration accused Donald Trump of undercutting American legitimacy in the eyes of the world. Trump’s call to ban Muslims wasn’t just morally wrong, according to Vice President Joe Biden, it called “into question America’s status as the greatest democracy in the history of the world.” President Obama followed Biden by asserting that Trump’s rhetoric “doesn’t reflect our democratic ideals,” saying “it will make us less safe, fueling ISIL’s notion that the West hates Muslims.” His point was simple—wanton discrimination in policy and rhetoric undercuts American legitimacy and fuels political extremism. This lesson is not limited to Donald Trump, and it applies as well abroad as it does at home.

Last week, 25-year-old Micah Xavier Johnson murdered five police officers in Dallas. This abhorrent act of political extremism cannot be divorced from American history—recent or old. In black communities, the police departments have only enjoyed a kind of quasi-legitimacy. That is because wanton discrimination is definitional to the black experience, and very often it is law enforcement which implements that discrimination with violence. A community consistently subjected to violent discrimination under the law will lose respect for it, and act beyond it. When such actions stretch to mass murder it is horrific. But it is also predictable.


To understand the lack of police legitimacy in black communities, consider the contempt in which most white Americans hold O.J. Simpson. Consider their feelings toward the judge and jury in the case. And then consider that this is approximately how black people have felt every few months for generations. It’s not just that the belief that Officer Timothy Loehmann got away with murdering a 12-year-old Tamir Rice, it is the reality that police officers have been getting away with murdering black people since the advent of American policing. The injustice compounds, congeals until there is an almost tangible sense of dread and grievance that compels a community to understand the police as objects of fear, not respect.

What does it mean, for instance, that black children are ritually told that any stray movement in the face of the police might result in their own legal killing? When Eric Holder spoke about getting “The Talk” from his father, and then giving it to his own son, many of us nodded our heads. But many more of us were terrified. When the nation’s top cop must warn his children to be skeptical of his own troops, how legitimate can the police actually be?

And it is not as if Holder is imagining things. When the law shoots down 12-year-old children, or beats down old women on traffic islands, or chokes people to death over cigarettes; when the law shoots people over compact discs, traffic stops, drivers’ licenses, loud conversation, or car trouble; when the law auctions off its monopoly on lethal violence to bemused civilians, when these civilians then kill, and when their victims are mocked in their death throes; when people stand up to defend police as officers of the state, and when these defenders are killed by these very same officers; when much of this is recorded, uploaded, live-streamed, tweeted, and broadcast; and when government seems powerless, or unwilling, to stop any of it, then it ceases, in the eyes of citizens, to be any sort of respectable law at all. It simply becomes “force.”


In the black community, it’s the force they deploy, and not any higher American ideal, that gives police their power. This is obviously dangerous for those who are policed. Less appreciated is the danger illegitimacy ultimately poses to those who must do the policing. For if the law represents nothing but the greatest force, then it really is indistinguishable from any other street gang. And if the law is nothing but a gang, then it is certain that someone will resort to the kind of justice typically meted out to all other powers in the street.

The Talk is testament to something that went very wrong, long ago, with law enforcement, something that we are scared to see straight. That something has very little to do with the officer on the beat and everything to do with ourselves. There’s a sense that the police departments of America have somehow gone rogue. In fact, the police are one of the most trusted institutions in the country. This is not a paradox. The policies which the police carry out are not the edicts of a dictatorship but the work, as Biden put it, of “the greatest democracy in the history of the world.” Avoiding this fact is central to the current conversation around “police reform” which focuses solely on the actions of police officers and omits everything that precedes these actions. But analyzing the present crisis in law enforcement solely from the contested street, is like analyzing the Iraq War solely from the perspective of Abu Ghraib. And much like the Iraq War, there is a strong temptation to focus on the problems of “implementation,” as opposed to building the kind of equitable society in which police force is used as sparingly as possible.

There is no short-cut out. Sanctimonious cries of nonviolence will not help. “Retraining” can only do so much. Until we move to the broader question of policy, we can expect to see Walter Scotts and Freddie Grays with some regularity. And the extent to which we are tolerant of the possibility of more Walter Scotts and Freddie Grays is the extent to which we are tolerant of the possibility of more Micah Xavier Johnsons.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:39 am 
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Wow... The stats in the Washington post article referenced by TYT really are eye opening. It's hard to deny an inherent bias.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rJHJwTP40Ok

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:19 am 
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Nas wrote:
I'm really not sure what you are saying Juiced.


Lets just drop it and get back to fantasy baseball! Kluber on the block if you want him. I need offense for next year.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:26 am 
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Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes. It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within some Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all. Black Lives Matter affirms the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, Black-undocumented folks, folks with records, women and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. It centers those that have been marginalized within Black liberation movements. It is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.


To clarify what BLM is per their website.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:30 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Quote:
Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes. It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within some Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all. Black Lives Matter affirms the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, Black-undocumented folks, folks with records, women and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. It centers those that have been marginalized within Black liberation movements. It is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.


To clarify what BLM is per their website.


That literally sounds super homo.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:32 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Ta-Nehisi Coates with another great article on this topic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ce/490541/


From the man who was cheering the dead cops on 9/11, this is no surprise. Justifying the violence against police as understandable. Coates is ever oppressed. Can't move into his $2 million home because of all of the oppression he faces. He is pure nihilism and revenge.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:42 am 
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I wonder how the movement feels about DeRay McKesson living in a luxury home bought by a couple of rich George Soros supporters and Open Societies members.

Something big brewing when ever Soros is involved.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:57 am 
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Yeah SG, hearing the Soros name revolving around the BLM movement is not a good thing. I learned a long time ago, you have to follow the money with every cultural or socioeconomic issue. Seeing Soros' name attached to this movement kind of de-legitimizes the cause.... Seriously tho, MANY cops have a brown people bias that is a major problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:10 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Quote:
Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes. It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within some Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all. Black Lives Matter affirms the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, Black-undocumented folks, folks with records, women and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. It centers those that have been marginalized within Black liberation movements. It is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.


To clarify what BLM is per their website.


That literally sounds super homo.


I hate to dismiss anything out of hand but use of the term "cis" usually results in it

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:13 am 
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Yeah that website gave me a SJW struggling sophomore in college vibe. Couple of lesbians sparked this whole movment with George Soros money.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:27 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Yeah SG, hearing the Soros name revolving around the BLM movement is not a good thing. I learned a long time ago, you have to follow the money with every cultural or socioeconomic issue. Seeing Soros' name attached to this movement kind of de-legitimizes the cause.... Seriously tho, MANY cops have a brown people bias that is a major problem.


You may very well be mocking me but Soros has pushed and thus benefited from a lot of destabilization events.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:29 am 
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I just wish I'd move you back to the Bateman avatar. No mocking.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:31 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
I just wish I'd move you back to the Bateman avatar. No mocking.


I'm trying to be a better internet citizen

I'm fighting for the little guy, the guy that gets ganged up on, the guy that is a victim of moderator abuses, lies and bullying.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:33 am 
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Denisdman will be ok.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:35 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
I just wish I'd move you back to the Bateman avatar. No mocking.


I'm trying to be a better internet citizen

I'm fighting for the little guy, the guy that gets ganged up on, the guy that is a victim of moderator abuses, lies and bullying.


An avatar means a lot. The longer that one stays up, the more people's subconscious opinion of you will go down. Don't say I didn't warn you.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:35 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Yeah SG, hearing the Soros name revolving around the BLM movement is not a good thing. I learned a long time ago, you have to follow the money with every cultural or socioeconomic issue. Seeing Soros' name attached to this movement kind of de-legitimizes the cause.... Seriously tho, MANY cops have a brown people bias that is a major problem.


You may very well be mocking me but Soros has pushed and thus benefited from a lot of destabilization events.


my "unwitting or witting agent" opinion might have some credibility

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:36 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
I just wish I'd move you back to the Bateman avatar. No mocking.


I'm trying to be a better internet citizen

I'm fighting for the little guy, the guy that gets ganged up on, the guy that is a victim of moderator abuses, lies and bullying.


An avatar means a lot. The longer that one stays up, the more people's subconscious opinion of you will go down. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:37 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
I just wish I'd move you back to the Bateman avatar. No mocking.


I'm trying to be a better internet citizen

I'm fighting for the little guy, the guy that gets ganged up on, the guy that is a victim of moderator abuses, lies and bullying.


An avatar means a lot. The longer that one stays up, the more people's subconscious opinion of you will go down. Don't say I didn't warn you.


Like the general opinion of SomeGuy can get any lower!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:38 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
I just wish I'd move you back to the Bateman avatar. No mocking.


I'm trying to be a better internet citizen

I'm fighting for the little guy, the guy that gets ganged up on, the guy that is a victim of moderator abuses, lies and bullying.


An avatar means a lot. The longer that one stays up, the more people's subconscious opinion of you will go down. Don't say I didn't warn you.


Like the general opinion of SomeGuy can get any lower!


I think this is where I'm supposed to make a lame joke about fighting in a war with General Opinion or something.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:42 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
I just wish I'd move you back to the Bateman avatar. No mocking.


I'm trying to be a better internet citizen

I'm fighting for the little guy, the guy that gets ganged up on, the guy that is a victim of moderator abuses, lies and bullying.


An avatar means a lot. The longer that one stays up, the more people's conscious opinion of you will go down. Don't say I didn't warn you.


FIXED

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:59 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Yeah that website gave me a SJW struggling sophomore in college vibe. Couple of lesbians sparked this whole movment with George Soros money.

^^^^^^^ Let's get back on track here, ok?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:07 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Yeah that website gave me a SJW struggling sophomore in college vibe. Couple of lesbians sparked this whole movment with George Soros money.

^^^^^^^ Let's get back on track here, ok?


Ok.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:27 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Yeah that website gave me a SJW struggling sophomore in college vibe. Couple of lesbians sparked this whole movment with George Soros money.

^^^^^^^ Let's get back on track here, ok?


Here you go:

Profile of the founder:http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/03/04/alicia-garza-black-lives-matter/24341593/

And Miss Alabama calling the Dallas Police shooter a martyr: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nati ... /86979620/

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:44 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Ta-Nehisi Coates with another great article on this topic.

There is no short-cut out. Sanctimonious cries of nonviolence will not help.


Nice rhetorical bomb, TNC.

He's right overall, though--fix society or this will keep happening. Good luck finding the jobs to do this, though. I don't think his world-view accounts for that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:50 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Yeah that website gave me a SJW struggling sophomore in college vibe. Couple of lesbians sparked this whole movment with George Soros money.

^^^^^^^ Let's get back on track here, ok?


Here you go:

Profile of the founder:http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/03/04/alicia-garza-black-lives-matter/24341593/

And Miss Alabama calling the Dallas Police shooter a martyr: http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nati ... /86979620/

She was candid. She's trying to work through this. I can respect that. It shows you the weird directions our identities pull us in. Very few of us can shake this off with regularity.

Don't get me wrong: The shooter was no martyr, but a dangerous killer.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:42 am 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Ta-Nehisi Coates with another great article on this topic.

There is no short-cut out. Sanctimonious cries of nonviolence will not help.


Nice rhetorical bomb, TNC.

He's right overall, though--fix society or this will keep happening. Good luck finding the jobs to do this, though. I don't think his world-view accounts for that.


Fix society how? It what way? Don't think that justifying the violence helps in anyway. There is going to be inequality in a capitalist society.

Want a practical solution to this? Don't allow the police to carry guns, unless there is an active shooter. Think the cops would go for that? Or ban guns altogether, which is politically unfeasible.

His fix society idea is beyond vague, and the idea that the entire system is rigged based on race simply is not true. He is an example of why it isn't.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:44 am 
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The practical solution is to bring to justice cops who wrongly kill suspects, many of whom are black.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:53 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Quote:
Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes. It goes beyond the narrow nationalism that can be prevalent within some Black communities, which merely call on Black people to love Black, live Black and buy Black, keeping straight cis Black men in the front of the movement while our sisters, queer and trans and disabled folk take up roles in the background or not at all. Black Lives Matter affirms the lives of Black queer and trans folks, disabled folks, Black-undocumented folks, folks with records, women and all Black lives along the gender spectrum. It centers those that have been marginalized within Black liberation movements. It is a tactic to (re)build the Black liberation movement.


To clarify what BLM is per their website.


That literally sounds super homo.


I hate to dismiss anything out of hand but use of the term "cis" usually results in it


I think the succeeding paragraphs from the BLM manifesto are more revealing than the one quoted above:

Quote:
When we say Black Lives Matter, we are talking about the ways in which Black people are deprived of our basic human rights and dignity. It is an acknowledgement Black poverty and genocide is state violence. It is an acknowledgment that 1 million Black people are locked in cages in this country–one half of all people in prisons or jails–is an act of state violence. It is an acknowledgment that Black women continue to bear the burden of a relentless assault on our children and our families and that assault is an act of state violence. Black queer and trans folks bearing a unique burden in a hetero-patriarchal society that disposes of us like garbage and simultaneously fetishizes us and profits off of us is state violence; the fact that 500,000 Black people in the US are undocumented immigrants and relegated to the shadows is state violence;.the fact that Black girls are used as negotiating chips during times of conflict and war is state violence; Black folks living with disabilities and different abilities bear the burden of state-sponsored Darwinian experiments that attempt to squeeze us into boxes of normality defined by White supremacy is state violence. And the fact is that the lives of Black people—not ALL people—exist within these conditions is consequence of state violence.

#BlackLivesMatter doesn’t mean your life isn’t important–it means that Black lives, which are seen as without value within White supremacy, are important to your liberation. Given the disproportionate impact state violence has on Black lives, we understand that when Black people in this country get free, the benefits will be wide reaching and transformative for society as a whole. When we are able to end hyper-criminalization and sexualization of Black people and end the poverty, control, and surveillance of Black people, every single person in this world has a better shot at getting and staying free. When Black people get free, everybody gets free. This is why we call on Black people and our allies to take up the call that Black lives matter. We’re not saying Black lives are more important than other lives, or that other lives are not criminalized and oppressed in various ways. We remain in active solidarity with all oppressed people who are fighting for their liberation and we know that our destinies are intertwined.

And, to keep it real–it is appropriate and necessary to have strategy and action centered around Blackness without other non-Black communities of color, or White folks for that matter, needing to find a place and a way to center themselves within it. It is appropriate and necessary for us to acknowledge the critical role that Black lives and struggles for Black liberation have played in inspiring and anchoring, through practice and theory, social movements for the liberation of all people. The women’s movement, the Chicano liberation movement, queer movements, and many more have adopted the strategies, tactics and theory of the Black liberation movement. And if we are committed to a world where all lives matter, we are called to support the very movement that inspired and activated so many more. That means supporting and acknowledging Black lives.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:54 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The practical solution is to bring to justice cops who wrongly kill suspects, many of whom are black.


What is justice?

If the suspect is fighting or fleeing how does that impact "justice"? And there is not video footage or only partial footage in many cases. What does that mean for justice?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:57 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Ta-Nehisi Coates with another great article on this topic.

There is no short-cut out. Sanctimonious cries of nonviolence will not help.


Nice rhetorical bomb, TNC.

He's right overall, though--fix society or this will keep happening. Good luck finding the jobs to do this, though. I don't think his world-view accounts for that.


Fix society how? It what way? Don't think that justifying the violence helps in anyway. There is going to be inequality in a capitalist society.

Want a practical solution to this? Don't allow the police to carry guns, unless there is an active shooter. Think the cops would go for that? Or ban guns altogether, which is politically unfeasible.

His fix society idea is beyond vague, and the idea that the entire system is rigged based on race simply is not true. He is an example of why it isn't.


Coates favors massive federal investment in impoverished black neighborhoods as a form of reparations for slavery.

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