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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:40 pm 
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My larger point was not the specifics of housing. It was the immediacy part. Regardless of the plan (you name it) the results come about slowly almost like an evolution. People by nature seem to demand quickie answers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:40 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Regardless of what all people view as the solutions to the many problems in our society something very important is missing. Immediacy. Since the 50's and especially late 60's and 70's many people had plans and well intended solutions. People are misled by leaders of all sorts as well as media outlets that the great ideas will fix things. Many so called fixes can take many many years to show not only results but if the results are actually positive.

I am sure if there were a message board back then many would have thought the Chicago Housing Authority was a great idea. People probably welcomed it. It took how long to see it was a failure and Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor torn down?

A part of this is politics. Pols promise grand solutions that are not even possible to really see results in their terms or possibly their lives. Unfortunately, people expect to realize these promises in a much faster time frame.

Do any of us really have a grand solution to much that can be realized quickly?



In the beginning Public Housing was considered a good thing. The first secretary of public housing sought to integrate. She believed that in order for it to be successful there would need to be integration. This plan was nixed by white alderman and largely driven by whites in the outlying communities.

In 1966 a lawsuit was filed by a CHA resident which stated that public housing had been unsuccessful largely because it'd primarily been built in black ghetto areas. She "won" the suit and in exchange for winning the courts ruled that any new public housing would have to be built in white areas. As a result of this local politicians simply decided to build no new public housing.

The thinking behind public housing was sound, and in the beginning there were some benefits. The public housing of the 1950's was starkly different from that of the 90's. It had a chance to be successful but political and societal factors combined to kill whatever hope that Elizabeth Wood originally had for it.


Check out the City's new Affordable Housing requirements. While I have a huge problem with one industry (real estate development) having to exclusively shoulder the burden of a societal problem, this should result in some quick (unless the RE market goes teets up again) alleviation to housing integration in the city.


I'm somewhat familiar with it. Once they tore down the projects they tried to bring about mixed developments. They consisted of 3 tiers. Ownership, market rate, and section 8. They quickly found that class differences made it difficult to implement.

I will say that the area where the projects used to be looks completely different and there is integration. The central portion of Chicago is considered desirable. It's a good thing too.


It is class difference. There was some recent study that affluent African americans choose to live away from the poor (of any ethnic group) just as whites do.

That post projects plan was rife with corruption.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:45 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
My larger point was not the specifics of housing. It was the immediacy part. Regardless of the plan (you name it) the results come about slowly almost like an evolution. People by nature seem to demand quickie answers.


There are changes being implemented in policing across the larger forces in the US in real time.

Change happens quickly and slowly at the same time.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:46 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Regardless of what all people view as the solutions to the many problems in our society something very important is missing. Immediacy. Since the 50's and especially late 60's and 70's many people had plans and well intended solutions. People are misled by leaders of all sorts as well as media outlets that the great ideas will fix things. Many so called fixes can take many many years to show not only results but if the results are actually positive.

I am sure if there were a message board back then many would have thought the Chicago Housing Authority was a great idea. People probably welcomed it. It took how long to see it was a failure and Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor torn down?

A part of this is politics. Pols promise grand solutions that are not even possible to really see results in their terms or possibly their lives. Unfortunately, people expect to realize these promises in a much faster time frame.

Do any of us really have a grand solution to much that can be realized quickly?



In the beginning Public Housing was considered a good thing. The first secretary of public housing sought to integrate. She believed that in order for it to be successful there would need to be integration. This plan was nixed by white alderman and largely driven by whites in the outlying communities.

In 1966 a lawsuit was filed by a CHA resident which stated that public housing had been unsuccessful largely because it'd primarily been built in black ghetto areas. She "won" the suit and in exchange for winning the courts ruled that any new public housing would have to be built in white areas. As a result of this local politicians simply decided to build no new public housing.

The thinking behind public housing was sound, and in the beginning there were some benefits. The public housing of the 1950's was starkly different from that of the 90's. It had a chance to be successful but political and societal factors combined to kill whatever hope that Elizabeth Wood originally had for it.


Check out the City's new Affordable Housing requirements. While I have a huge problem with one industry (real estate development) having to exclusively shoulder the burden of a societal problem, this should result in some quick (unless the RE market goes teets up again) alleviation to housing integration in the city.


I'm somewhat familiar with it. Once they tore down the projects they tried to bring about mixed developments. They consisted of 3 tiers. Ownership, market rate, and section 8. They quickly found that class differences made it difficult to implement.

I will say that the area where the projects used to be looks completely different and there is integration. The central portion of Chicago is considered desirable. It's a good thing too.


It is class difference. There was some recent study that affluent African americans choose to live away from the poor (of any ethnic group) just as whites do.

That post projects plan was rife with corruption.


That was an issue during the 40's and 50's too. The black middle class didn't want to live near the black poor but segregation and restrictive covenant policies meant that they didn't have a choice.

Yes it was. I vaguely remember some of it but I sort of remember some major indictments being handed down to some of the developers involved with the transformation.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:08 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Change happens quickly and slowly at the same time.


Deep.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:16 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Change happens quickly and slowly at the same time.


Deep.


"Tell me about it."

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:19 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Regardless of what all people view as the solutions to the many problems in our society something very important is missing. Immediacy. Since the 50's and especially late 60's and 70's many people had plans and well intended solutions. People are misled by leaders of all sorts as well as media outlets that the great ideas will fix things. Many so called fixes can take many many years to show not only results but if the results are actually positive.

I am sure if there were a message board back then many would have thought the Chicago Housing Authority was a great idea. People probably welcomed it. It took how long to see it was a failure and Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor torn down?

A part of this is politics. Pols promise grand solutions that are not even possible to really see results in their terms or possibly their lives. Unfortunately, people expect to realize these promises in a much faster time frame.

Do any of us really have a grand solution to much that can be realized quickly?


Not really. All reforms will take decades.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:21 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Do any of us really have a grand solution to much that can be realized quickly?

Image

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Last edited by Douchebag on Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:29 pm 
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Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Regardless of what all people view as the solutions to the many problems in our society something very important is missing. Immediacy. Since the 50's and especially late 60's and 70's many people had plans and well intended solutions. People are misled by leaders of all sorts as well as media outlets that the great ideas will fix things. Many so called fixes can take many many years to show not only results but if the results are actually positive.

I am sure if there were a message board back then many would have thought the Chicago Housing Authority was a great idea. People probably welcomed it. It took how long to see it was a failure and Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor torn down?

A part of this is politics. Pols promise grand solutions that are not even possible to really see results in their terms or possibly their lives. Unfortunately, people expect to realize these promises in a much faster time frame.

Do any of us really have a grand solution to much that can be realized quickly?


Not really. All reforms will take decades.

And then it takes (or often takes) a generation or more to understand it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:46 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Regardless of what all people view as the solutions to the many problems in our society something very important is missing. Immediacy. Since the 50's and especially late 60's and 70's many people had plans and well intended solutions. People are misled by leaders of all sorts as well as media outlets that the great ideas will fix things. Many so called fixes can take many many years to show not only results but if the results are actually positive.

I am sure if there were a message board back then many would have thought the Chicago Housing Authority was a great idea. People probably welcomed it. It took how long to see it was a failure and Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor torn down?

A part of this is politics. Pols promise grand solutions that are not even possible to really see results in their terms or possibly their lives. Unfortunately, people expect to realize these promises in a much faster time frame.

Do any of us really have a grand solution to much that can be realized quickly?


Not really. All reforms will take decades.

And then it takes (or often takes) a generation or more to understand it.


Doing nothing definitely isn't the answer. Criminal justice reform is something all minorities can feel almost instantly.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:02 pm 
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Nas wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Regardless of what all people view as the solutions to the many problems in our society something very important is missing. Immediacy. Since the 50's and especially late 60's and 70's many people had plans and well intended solutions. People are misled by leaders of all sorts as well as media outlets that the great ideas will fix things. Many so called fixes can take many many years to show not only results but if the results are actually positive.

I am sure if there were a message board back then many would have thought the Chicago Housing Authority was a great idea. People probably welcomed it. It took how long to see it was a failure and Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor torn down?

A part of this is politics. Pols promise grand solutions that are not even possible to really see results in their terms or possibly their lives. Unfortunately, people expect to realize these promises in a much faster time frame.

Do any of us really have a grand solution to much that can be realized quickly?


Not really. All reforms will take decades.

And then it takes (or often takes) a generation or more to understand it.


Doing nothing definitely isn't the answer. Criminal justice reform is something all minorities can feel almost instantly.

Definitely agree. Didn't mean to imply or suggest that difficulty necessitates inaction (the "we'll never solve ________" fallacy). I meant it literally: It takes people a long time to find out the various causes and effects of programs.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:09 pm 
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formerlyknownas wrote:
Nas wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Regardless of what all people view as the solutions to the many problems in our society something very important is missing. Immediacy. Since the 50's and especially late 60's and 70's many people had plans and well intended solutions. People are misled by leaders of all sorts as well as media outlets that the great ideas will fix things. Many so called fixes can take many many years to show not only results but if the results are actually positive.

I am sure if there were a message board back then many would have thought the Chicago Housing Authority was a great idea. People probably welcomed it. It took how long to see it was a failure and Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor torn down?

A part of this is politics. Pols promise grand solutions that are not even possible to really see results in their terms or possibly their lives. Unfortunately, people expect to realize these promises in a much faster time frame.

Do any of us really have a grand solution to much that can be realized quickly?


Not really. All reforms will take decades.

And then it takes (or often takes) a generation or more to understand it.


Doing nothing definitely isn't the answer. Criminal justice reform is something all minorities can feel almost instantly.

Definitely agree. Didn't mean to imply or suggest that difficulty necessitates inaction (the "we'll never solve ________" fallacy). I meant it literally: It takes people a long time to find out the various causes and effects of programs.


I agree. I wasn't trying to imply that was the point you were making either.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:31 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Change happens quickly and slowly at the same time.


Deep.


STRETCH!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:52 pm 
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Nas wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Nas wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Regardless of what all people view as the solutions to the many problems in our society something very important is missing. Immediacy. Since the 50's and especially late 60's and 70's many people had plans and well intended solutions. People are misled by leaders of all sorts as well as media outlets that the great ideas will fix things. Many so called fixes can take many many years to show not only results but if the results are actually positive.

I am sure if there were a message board back then many would have thought the Chicago Housing Authority was a great idea. People probably welcomed it. It took how long to see it was a failure and Cabrini Green and Robert Taylor torn down?

A part of this is politics. Pols promise grand solutions that are not even possible to really see results in their terms or possibly their lives. Unfortunately, people expect to realize these promises in a much faster time frame.

Do any of us really have a grand solution to much that can be realized quickly?


Not really. All reforms will take decades.

And then it takes (or often takes) a generation or more to understand it.


Doing nothing definitely isn't the answer. Criminal justice reform is something all minorities can feel almost instantly.

Definitely agree. Didn't mean to imply or suggest that difficulty necessitates inaction (the "we'll never solve ________" fallacy). I meant it literally: It takes people a long time to find out the various causes and effects of programs.


I agree. I wasn't trying to imply that was the point you were making either.

If you look at the posts in which we respond to one another...we do that a lot. I wonder what that means....

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:06 pm 
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You two should fuck each other.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:08 pm 
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:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:14 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
You two should fuck each other.


Should?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:30 pm 
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Nas wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
You two should fuck each other.


Should?

Aww....you guys....

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:19 am 
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http://gawker.com/heres-audio-of-what-s ... refromsite

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:40 am 
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More situations like this need to be brought to light in order to wake up those in denial.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:23 am 
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/body-camera-footage-released-police-shooting-calif-teen-article-1.2710319

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:25 am 
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No one cares.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:27 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
No one cares.

Too white?

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Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:29 am 
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He seemed to commit "suicide by cop".

Maybe the last shot was unnecessary.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:31 am 
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Def suicide by cop. Maybe a shotgun blast to finish him off was a little much.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:35 am 
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Nas wrote:
http://gawker.com/heres-audio-of-what-sounds-like-an-nypd-captain-pressur-1783544682?utm_medium=sharefromsite


captain must have taken statistics in college.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Cops never saw a gun, the kid Dylan wasn't charging them, and he hadn't hurt anybody leading up to this. No updating threads on Reddit, not trending on twitter, and ostensibly no protests being arranged. Weird.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:01 pm 
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There was no reason at all to shoot the guy when he was on the ground.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:31 pm 
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That video was pretty brutal. The guy in Baton Rouge was in physical contact with the police at least. Shoot first and create the reason why later.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:39 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
That video was pretty brutal. The guy in Baton Rouge was in physical contact with the police at least. Shoot first and create the reason why later.


And the guy in Baton Rouge was reaching for a gun. The cops saw the gun first, commanded him to stop reaching for it, and they shot when he, presumably, didn't. This kid was shot because he was reaching behind his back for...something...maybe.

This shoot isn't nearly as clean as people are making it out to be (the white-washing of it on Reddit is truly odd), because if this kid was black or brown there'd be protests in the streets and DOJ investigators on a plane to Fresno right now.


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