I'm not sure what they have to trade anyway. I think they should probably be both a seller and a buyer at the deadline if possible. They need to reshape this team. If they can move guys like Melky and/or Frazier they should do it. If you get a knockout offer for Quintana, he should go too, although for the money he gets, it doesn't hurt you to keep him. At the same time I have no issue with them making a move as a buyer that may not necessarily help this season but is more for the future.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Quintana should go. He's never going to win here so there's no use keeping him. Try and fleece some GM that thinks Shelby Miller is good and get some talent for him .

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

The White Sox, who are 4 1/2 games out of a Wild Card spot, are looking to buy in advance of the Aug. 1 trade deadline, general manager Rick Hahn said Friday (via Dan Hayes of CSNChicago.com). Hahn conceded that deals could be difficult to come by because, at least as of now, “it’s a strong seller’s market.”

Thanks a lot Matt.

Way to piss in my Cheerios.

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Miller just got sent down. The predictive properties of W/L record told you you shouldn't be trading 1-1 for him. That deal alone should be enough for LaRussa/Stewart to be fired.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/07/arizona ... ple-a-reno

"Miller has been a disaster for the Diamondbacks through the first half of the season. He’s 2-9 with a 7.14 ERA, allowing 55 earned runs in just over 69 innings pitched. The D-backs front office led by Tony La Russa and Dave Stewart knew that trading for Miller was a risk, but they openly believed that Miller was in a bad situation in Atlanta with comically poor run support."

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Dave Duncan's finally going to get the credit he really deserves for Larussa's teams in St. Louis.

_________________

Comparing Shelby Miller to Jose Quintana is really one of the dumbest things that continues to be posted here.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Not really. Until their last 14 starts Miller was widely considered superior to Quintana. That's how the Braves got 1-1 plus for him.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He has always been boom or bust. You look at Quintana's stat line and 90% of the time he gives up 0-3 runs. That's a level of consistency that Miller has never had.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I'm preparing you for the inevitable. You'll thank me later.

Are you really going to ignore the averages and point out the "when"? That's your whole argument against the value of W/L record.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Consistency matters. If Jose Quintana was a boom or bust pitcher or pitched in a pitcher friendly park I would very likely be in agreement with you.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

By who? Be specific.

WHO.SAID.WHAT.AND.WHEN ????

Tony LaRussa for starters. And many others. Unless you think Quintana could net 1-1 plus a promising pitcher plus a regular outfielder.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's not true.

The trade was widely panned as a massive overpay by two yahoos who are stuck 10 years behind today's current baseball front offices.

A drunk in LaRussa and dumb jock in Stewart made a horrible trade with the other 29 team laughing their asses off.

The trade was shockingly bad and criticized by nearly everyone.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/12/reactions-to-the-shelby-miller-trade.html

Now you're making a strawman argument. It would have been panned if Quintana had replaced Miller.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Not as much.

Quintana is far better than Shelby Miller.

So...one guy who is a demonstrable dolt and MANY others? K.

Probably more. Miller was a guy just like Quintana who was a victim of a lack of "run support" until he went somewhere where he got "run support" and still pitched to his W/L record.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Before that trade people said the same crap about Miller as you guys are now saying about Quintana. What was a better predictor, his ERA, his FIP, or his W/L record?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

His poor league-adjusted xFIP and gaudy 6.4% HR/FB rate in 2015 did a good job of setting up some hefty regression.

And wait, Miller was 25-18 in the two seasons leading up to his 6-17 year with the Braves...what was it about his 25-18 mark that predicted the 6-17 season?

I don't think he's as bad as his worst record or as good as his best one. He's just pretty mediocre. Like Quintana.

But don't act like we couldn't have been having this argument about Miller last year. Kirkwood seems to be suggesting he thought Miller and his 3 ERA was horseshit when we undoubtedly could have had the same conversation about him as we currently are about Quintana.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

We could have had that talk about Miller, and we probably should have, as the Braves averaged 2.54 R/9 when Miller was on the bump, nearly 2 whole runs below league average in 2015. While his xFIP and batted ball numbers indicated he was extremely unlikely to continue that level of performance for long, his FIP and "secondary" stats were slightly above league average, certainly not befitting 17 losses.

He's had an atrocious 70 innings so far this season, but to act as though this was somehow "predicted" by his 2015 record is to confer on W-L predictive abilities that it curiously didn't have in 2013-14, when he went from .581 to .261 W%. So again I ask you, if his 2015 .261 W% was predictive of a poor performance this year irrespective of "run support", why wasn't his .261 predicted by his previous .581?

Miller has never been as consistent as Quintana is. Comparing him to Quintana is just silly and tells me you are trying hard to cling onto your long held beliefs instead of admitting what we all can see and what all the data shows.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

See my answer to you above about the "when". You now seem to be arguing both sides as it suits your fancy.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I've been as consistent as Quintana.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You're original argument was Quintana would never yield the same return as Miller. Therefore, Miller is a better pitcher than Quintana.

Bad.

That wasn't the argument.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don