By definition isn't every big league pitcher within the 99th percentile of anyone who ever picked up a baseball? Are you now going to make personal insults to let everyone know how you're winning this argument?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Again, show me where I said WAR is the end all be all of stats.

This should be easy for you, just use the quote function. Shouldn't take you more than a second.

Absolutely, that is my point.

This isn't hard to figure out, we should judge whether Cain was good or not by comparing him to the other people who have pitched in the major leagues, that's the baseline.

Of all the people in the world, anyone who pitches an inning in the big leagues is in the 99th percentile. But of those we have Matt Cain, a guy who by one measure has created more value in throwing a baseball than all but 250 or so of those people in the 99th percentile. That's a guy who was a good pitcher.

And a guy with a losing record.

Trust me shitbag, if you're getting operated on and they tell you that your surgeon is in the top 1% of all the surgeons that have ever lived, you'd be smiling ear to ear.

I like how JORR, a guy currently reading stuff and posting stuff on the internet, and a guy who from all appearances spends a tremendous amount of time on the internet (at least this internet site) is making shit out of other people who read the internet.

Irony is rich.

Okay. That's a good point.

The thing is though, I don't just read a newsletter from some little fat guy who declares something like "RBI are meaningless" and say, "Hey everyone says this, it must be right and I'll say it too." The "analytics community" is more dogmatic and arrogant than any group of hidebound tobacco chewing old scouts ever was. And if analytics leads people to somehow believe that Javy Vazquez had a better career than Mark Buerhle I think we need to question the analysis.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Well, shitbag, if you actually believe Matt Cain is one of the best 250 pitchers in major league history, you're simply wrong and whatever number you're using to arrive at such a conclusion is flawed.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

One Post,
Is Javy Vazquez better than Mark Buehrle?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I said One Post, not One Hundred Thousand Posts.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Every time somebody recommends a doctor, he's always the best. "Oh, is he good?" "Oh, he's the best. This guy's the best." They can't all be the best. There can't be this many bests. Someone's graduating at the bottom of these classes, where are these doctors?

I can't read

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

This has been my topic on this board from the word go. I'm sticking my nose into nothing. You seem rattled that you have to fight this battle on so many fronts...I wonder why.

The only one that called Wood and Kershaw equal pitchers is you.

This W/L discussion is you, your buddy Tom and FF on one side and everyone else I've ever met on the other. I'm comfortable where I stand.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

But you are correct.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You can't admit you were wrong. It's making you look bad. You "fucking lol"ed me when you thought I was the one using cumulative WAR, but the fact is it was One Post, who you agree with on larger basis, so now it's okay apparently. The posts are all there for anyone who cares to read.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Did you not declare Matt Cain to be the 256th best pitcher of all-time? If not WAR what is it that prompted you to make such a statement?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Can you please show me where I did that?

Actually, the closest anyone has come to doing so is you:

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Team shitpost is on the board

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Both good pitchers, but I'd slot Buehrle over Vazquez. At least after a brief look at their numbers.

Back to back jacks by Rick and Bagels earlier on this page.

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Ahhh, I get it now....



This is about your distaste for Bernstein's parroting of Sheehan's newsletter whenever it comes out, then screaming at callers as if the ideas were his own. You're projecting, and that's OK, just get it under control.



Who said that?

Show me in that quote where I said Cain was the 256th best pitcher of all-time?

It just isn't in there pal. I said that Matt Cain currently stands 256th all time in WAR. That's what I said, and whether you like WAR or not that's a fact. Then I simply pointed out that using that metric, Cain has been better than "all but about 250 of them."

So again, where did I declare that Cain is precisely the 256th best pitcher of all time.

Don't read too hard there aardvark, because I didn't say it.

Let's reset. I said Cain was a good pitcher. You said he wasn't. I merely pointed out that Cain is the 256th ranked pitcher all time in terms of cumulative value relative to all other pitchers who threw a pitch in the big leagues. He's in a very high percentile in terms of value compared to the baseline. Even if you want to say he's been better than all but about 500 of them, he's still very high in terms of value when it comes to pitchers. Somone in that high of a percentile when it comes to value creation is good at their job whether they are a pitcher, catcher, shortstop, pilot, engineer, or ditch digger.

I'm just trying to use a metric to judge pitchers other than the JORR Coalcar Full of Bullshit Ambiguous Good Pitcher Rankings.

I don't think the shitbag insults were necessary, unless it is an acronym for a stat I am unaware of

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Are you fucking serious???????

One Post wrote:

of the tens of thousands of people who have pitched in major league baseball over the past 120+ years, Matt Cain has been better than all but about 250 of them.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'm continuing to fucking lol. Matt Cain was brought up as he is a good pitcher with a negative W/L ratio over a lengthy career. WAR was just one piece of evidence One Post referenced... he also mentioned things that give you a chub like World Series, a perfect game, Cy Young races....and you just ignored those.

How about this? Mark Buehrle was a 117 ERA+ pitcher. Cain? 113 ERA+

Pretty damn close. Cain had a better WHIP, and they had approximately the same K/BB. But Cain had a way higher SO%. And you're a huge fan of that number...since you say a strikeout is the worst thing a batter can do.

You're arguing that Cain > Buerhle and you don't even know it!



Convenient that you only quoted one part of that post.

Context, anyone?

This is just sad now.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

And Javier Vazquez had a better strikeout and walk rate than Cain, as well as a better career, league-adjusted FIP. Javy is better than all of them!

Yeah, pretty serious.

Of the tens of thousands of dudes who have pitched in the bigs, Cain has been better than about 250 of them.

"About" defined: adverb near in time, number, degree, etc.; approximately.

Now in full disclosure I did get that definition from the internet, so I'm sure you think it's worthless, but it's the best I could do right now.

So yeah, Cain is better than all but "about" 250 of the guys who ever threw a ball in the bigs. Is he better than 200? 250? 350? It really doesn't matter in the context of the conversation because we are trying to judge if Cain was a good pitcher or not. That's why I used the term "about".

Using his WAR purely as a barometer for the company that he ranks with all time is a pretty solid indicator that dude was a good pitcher at the MLB level.

I quoted the entire post above more than once. He said that Cain was one of the best 250 pitchers in baseball history. He said it and it's there for anyone to read it. Now, he may have meant something else, but I can't really read minds. If he thought he was the 1000th best pitcher of all time, why didn't he just say that? Now he- and you- want to parse sentences and play Clintonesque word games. Additionally, you are the guy who "fucking lol" ed when you though I was buttressing the argument by using career WAR and now you are defending that because some guy who is arguing with me actually said it. That's a real douche move.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, Vazquez was a good pitcher, I don't think anyone on here has said anything to the contrary.