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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:03 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Cashman wrote:
[I would trade him for Chapman and Miller. .


of course you would. So would anybody but the Yankees. I don't want to single you out because I have seen this type of talk bandied about by several Cub fans.

You are both overvaluing Schwarber and undervaluing the other two

That's ok. The Cubs can sit there with their competitive prospects while some other GM makes the championship move. Then you can do the same again next year.


The Cubs have other prospects to trade.


So do other teams The team with the best offer is the one that gets the players.

"Just a reliever" is a guy who will pitch a significant inning of every game of your playoff run and most of your regular season. The impact a lack of Schwarber has had on the season is negligible. I doubt you could say the same thing about Miller's presence.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:04 am 
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Essentially every team not the Royals or Red Sox have been mentioned as suitors for Miller/Chapman.

Why haven't Yankee publicized their Schwarber-like demand to them? The Cubs have something the Yankees really want. Too bad.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:05 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
You don't use Schwarber for relievers.


Correct.


Image

Then you don't get no Coke.

Don't worry, David Robertson is available also.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:06 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Essentially every team not the Royals or Red Sox have been mentioned as suitors for Miller/Chapman.

Why haven't Yankee publicized their Schwarber-like demand to them? The Cubs have something the Yankees really want. Too bad.


for you

The Yankees will get something really good for one, either or both of those guys

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:06 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
The Cubs have something the Yankees really want. Too bad.

And the Yankees have something that the Cubs really need.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:09 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
The Cubs have something the Yankees really want. Too bad.

And the Yankees have something that the Cubs really need.

There are other options. Desperation leads to Billy Beane.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:09 am 
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I have schwarber off the table right now simply because I'm not trading him for pennies on the dollar. A lefty bat that can mash right handed pitching with a small sample size of doing it in the playoffs is just not worth a reliever rental. That is as simply as I can put it.

They have 3 or 4 quality prospects coming up on top 100 lists, have at them.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:10 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Cashman wrote:
[I would trade him for Chapman and Miller. .


of course you would. So would anybody but the Yankees. I don't want to single you out because I have seen this type of talk bandied about by several Cub fans.

You are both overvaluing Schwarber and undervaluing the other two

That's ok. The Cubs can sit there with their competitive prospects while some other GM makes the championship move. Then you can do the same again next year.


The Cubs have other prospects to trade.


So do other teams The team with the best offer is the one that gets the players.

"Just a reliever" is a guy who will pitch a significant inning of every game of your playoff run and most of your regular season. The impact a lack of Schwarber has had on the season is negligible. I doubt you could say the same thing about Miller's presence.


I would look elsewhere. I'm not gutting my future for a relief pitcher no matter what. The Cubs haven't exactly been blowing save chances left and right. There are no guarantees that you will win with Chapman or Miller as the closers either. I personally would prefer a top of the rotation arm. I would probably call the Sox and Mets first.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:13 am 
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Schwarber is not the future of the Cubs. He is much more valuable to an AL team but even then I'm not sure you can count on him becoming a dominant DH with his injury history. Plenty of players had better rookie years and ended up being average.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:14 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
The Cubs have something the Yankees really want. Too bad.

And the Yankees have something that the Cubs really need.

Just ask yourself if you'd trade Rodon for Miller Soxboy. It's year 2 of the 3 year window. Gotta be aggressive


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:16 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
The Cubs have something the Yankees really want. Too bad.

And the Yankees have something that the Cubs really need.

Just ask yourself if you'd trade Rodon for Miller Soxboy. It's year 2 of the 3 year window. Gotta be aggressive
Rodon has a future with the Sox. Schwarber doesn't have one with the Cubs.

Theo may very well have cost the Cubs the World Series last year by sitting by and not doing much at the trade deadline.

If they end up getting less than optimal value for a guy that doesn't fit with the long term future of the team then it happens.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:27 am 
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I would first need to know what Miller Soxboy's W-L record is.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:31 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Cashman wrote:
[I would trade him for Chapman and Miller. .


of course you would. So would anybody but the Yankees. I don't want to single you out because I have seen this type of talk bandied about by several Cub fans.

You are both overvaluing Schwarber and undervaluing the other two

That's ok. The Cubs can sit there with their competitive prospects while some other GM makes the championship move. Then you can do the same again next year.


I am not a Cubs fan. IMO, the Yanks would love to have this guy play 1B. He is going to hit 30-40hrs a year, but it is worth trying to win a WS this year. He is going to be a longterm DH, which means the NL is not for him.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:43 am 
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I don't think you can trade Schwarber for a relief rental without being sure exactly what he is. But at some point you're gonna have too many guys and not enough positions. Somebody will have to go. Heyward looks like the big mistake.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:52 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
The Cubs have something the Yankees really want. Too bad.

And the Yankees have something that the Cubs really need.

Just ask yourself if you'd trade Rodon for Miller Soxboy. It's year 2 of the 3 year window. Gotta be aggressive
Rodon has a future with the Sox. Schwarber doesn't have one with the Cubs.

Theo may very well have cost the Cubs the World Series last year by sitting by and not doing much at the trade deadline.

If they end up getting less than optimal value for a guy that doesn't fit with the long term future of the team then it happens.

Rodon is a redundant piece. Very little future for him with the Sox. Sale/Quintana/Fulmer/Shields are around for the next 2 years minimum with the 1st 3 the next 3 years.

Best to trade Rodon now while he still has the shine of 3rd overall pick and upside of a TOR arm before reality arrives that he's a mid-rotation guy.

If you can get a great reliever for years 2 & 3 of a 3-year window you have to do it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:53 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't think you can trade Schwarber for a relief rental without being sure exactly what he is. But at some point you're gonna have too many guys and not enough positions. Somebody will have to go. Heyward looks like the big mistake.



Are you doubting the all mighty Theo!?!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:54 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
The Cubs have something the Yankees really want. Too bad.

And the Yankees have something that the Cubs really need.

Just ask yourself if you'd trade Rodon for Miller Soxboy. It's year 2 of the 3 year window. Gotta be aggressive
Rodon has a future with the Sox. Schwarber doesn't have one with the Cubs.

Theo may very well have cost the Cubs the World Series last year by sitting by and not doing much at the trade deadline.

If they end up getting less than optimal value for a guy that doesn't fit with the long term future of the team then it happens.

Rodon is a redundant piece. Very little future for him with the Sox. Sale/Quintana/Fulmer/Shields are around for the next 2 years minimum with the 1st 3 the next 3 years.

Best to trade Rodon now while he still has the shine of 3rd overall pick and upside of a TOR arm before reality arrives that he's a mid-rotation guy.

If you can get a great reliever for years 2 & 3 of a 3-year window you have to do it.



I get who his agent is, but I do not agree. Have a nice cheap rotation for the next few year is nice.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:55 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Rodon is a redundant piece. Very little future for him with the Sox. Sale/Quintana/Fulmer/Shields are around for the next 2 years minimum with the 1st 3 the next 3 years.
Did they stop having 5 starting pitchers?
Kirkwood wrote:
Best to trade Rodon now while he still has the shine of 3rd overall pick and upside of a TOR arm before reality arrives that he's a mid-rotation guy.

If you can get a great reliever for years 2 & 3 of a 3-year window you have to do it.
Well, the Sox also suck, which is a problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:58 am 
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The Sox bring have a 23 year old on their MLB roster, and he is a redundant piece.

The Cubs bring up a 23 year old, and he is a HOF'er.

Seems reasonable.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:58 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Sox bring have a 23 year old on their MLB roster, and he is a redundant piece.

The Cubs bring up a 23 year old, and he is a HOF'er.

Seems reasonable.
I think he was complimenting Rick Hahn. Too many good starting pitchers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:05 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Did they stop having 5 starting pitchers?


Also, depending on how strong he finishes, Shields may opt out.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:07 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Did they stop having 5 starting pitchers?


Also, depending on how strong he finishes, Shields may opt out.



I hope to HEYZEUS he does.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:16 am 
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Cashman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Did they stop having 5 starting pitchers?


Also, depending on how strong he finishes, Shields may opt out.



I hope to HEYZEUS he does.


Me too, but I doubt we could get that lucky.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:21 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Did they stop having 5 starting pitchers?


Also, depending on how strong he finishes, Shields may opt out.



I hope to HEYZEUS he does.


Me too, but I doubt we could get that lucky.



I just hope they use that money elsewhere. But then again, I wish they would pick a direction and go with it, and trading prospects for players is not that direction.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:25 am 
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Cashman wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Cashman wrote:
[I would trade him for Chapman and Miller. .


of course you would. So would anybody but the Yankees. I don't want to single you out because I have seen this type of talk bandied about by several Cub fans.

You are both overvaluing Schwarber and undervaluing the other two

That's ok. The Cubs can sit there with their competitive prospects while some other GM makes the championship move. Then you can do the same again next year.


I am not a Cubs fan. IMO, the Yanks would love to have this guy play 1B. He is going to hit 30-40hrs a year, but it is worth trying to win a WS this year. He is going to be a longterm DH, which means the NL is not for him.


Now he can play 1B? I guess it couldn't be any worse than him playing OF and C.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:26 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
The Cubs have something the Yankees really want. Too bad.

And the Yankees have something that the Cubs really need.

Just ask yourself if you'd trade Rodon for Miller Soxboy. It's year 2 of the 3 year window. Gotta be aggressive
Rodon has a future with the Sox. Schwarber doesn't have one with the Cubs.

Theo may very well have cost the Cubs the World Series last year by sitting by and not doing much at the trade deadline.

If they end up getting less than optimal value for a guy that doesn't fit with the long term future of the team then it happens.

Rodon is a redundant piece. Very little future for him with the Sox. Sale/Quintana/Fulmer/Shields are around for the next 2 years minimum with the 1st 3 the next 3 years.

Best to trade Rodon now while he still has the shine of 3rd overall pick and upside of a TOR arm before reality arrives that he's a mid-rotation guy.

If you can get a great reliever for years 2 & 3 of a 3-year window you have to do it.


Don't forget to add that they had a super awesome draft this year that was universally praised and should yield even more pitching talent in 1-2 years.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:35 am 
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Cashman wrote:
I just hope they use that money elsewhere. But then again, I wish they would pick a direction and go with it, and trading prospects for players is not that direction.


Yeah, I don't want them trading prospects for warhorses. But this is a chance to remake this team. They should be looking to move everyone except Sale, Rodon, Eaton, Anderson, and Fullmer. Maybe Quintana fits in that group. It's not a secret that I don't care for him :lol: , but he is very cheap and I don't rule out the possibility, however remote, that Nas might be right about him. There are a few guys who went a long time with bad records before becoming top of the rotation studs. Dave Stewart and Al Leiter were around .500 up until their late 20s and Red Ruffing had some atrocious seasons to start his career and he made the Hall of Fame. It's pretty unusual though.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:44 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Cashman wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Cashman wrote:
[I would trade him for Chapman and Miller. .


of course you would. So would anybody but the Yankees. I don't want to single you out because I have seen this type of talk bandied about by several Cub fans.

You are both overvaluing Schwarber and undervaluing the other two

That's ok. The Cubs can sit there with their competitive prospects while some other GM makes the championship move. Then you can do the same again next year.


I am not a Cubs fan. IMO, the Yanks would love to have this guy play 1B. He is going to hit 30-40hrs a year, but it is worth trying to win a WS this year. He is going to be a longterm DH, which means the NL is not for him.


Now he can play 1B? I guess it couldn't be any worse than him playing OF and C.



1B is your worst defensive player. If he can play catcher, he can play 1B. Paul Konerko made the switch.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:45 am 
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Cashman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Did they stop having 5 starting pitchers?


Also, depending on how strong he finishes, Shields may opt out.



I hope to HEYZEUS he does.


Me too, but I doubt we could get that lucky.



I just hope they use that money elsewhere. But then again, I wish they would pick a direction and go with it, and trading prospects for players is not that direction.


I really do think there will be a market for James Shields if the Sox decide to sell.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:51 am 
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good dolphin wrote:

I really do think there will be a market for James Shields if the Sox decide to sell.


Maybe if the Sox pay his remaining salary.

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