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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:20 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


The RNC did the exact same thing to Newt and it wasn't much of a story. I think it's a story because there are people that want to admit that the better candidate won.

Was there actual sabotage or were there simply emails which displayed an interest in seeing Sanders lose?

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:22 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Bernie was more electable.
No he wasn't.

The guy lost the Democratic nomination by millions of votes to Hillary. Do you think Republicans were going to jump over to him more than Hillary?

He's less divisive. I can't believe I'm saying that but he is...
Republicans are going to be much more inclined to accept Hillary than Bernie. I can't believe you truly think otherwise.


Are you talking about Congressional Republicans? They wouldn't work with Clinton or Sanders.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:23 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


The RNC did the exact same thing to Newt and it wasn't much of a story. I think it's a story because there are people that want to admit that the better candidate won.

Was there actual sabotage or were there simply emails which displayed an interest in seeing Sanders lose?

if they did the stuff to Newt that the DNC did to Sanders, then yes it should have been a story too.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:24 am 
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TM, I believe Congressional Republicans will work with Clinton on the Trans Pacific Trade deal and Corporate tax reform. There is no doubt they'll continue to have non-stop committee investigations because that seems to be all they care about.

I am not even convinced Republicans will be relevant in the next Congress except for a filibuster....

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:25 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Bernie was more electable.
No he wasn't.

The guy lost the Democratic nomination by millions of votes to Hillary. Do you think Republicans were going to jump over to him more than Hillary?

He's less divisive. I can't believe I'm saying that but he is...
Republicans are going to be much more inclined to accept Hillary than Bernie. I can't believe you truly think otherwise.


Are you talking about Congressional Republicans? They wouldn't work with Clinton or Sanders.


They are much more likely to work with Hillary.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:26 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


The RNC did the exact same thing to Newt and it wasn't much of a story. I think it's a story because there are people that want to admit that the better candidate won.

Was there actual sabotage or were there simply emails which displayed an interest in seeing Sanders lose?

if they did the stuff to Newt that the DNC did to Sanders, then yes it should have been a story too.


They were vocal about shutting Newt down after South Carolina. Their support was firmly placed behind Romney after that. They didn't care who knew about it either.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:27 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Republicans are going to be much more inclined to accept Hillary than Bernie. I can't believe you truly think otherwise.


Basically every poll conducted says otherwise. This is not me espousing my opinion. Every poll conducted showed Sanders beating Trump handily as opposed to most polls that show Hillary and Trump neck-and-neck.
The thing is that Bernie never really stood up to the negative campaign ads that Hillary has. I know the supporters of Bernie don't like to admit it but there was a lot of things to attack him on. Hillary didn't do it to avoid making his supporters even more mad than they were but the Republicans certainly would have.

There are many articles that state the Republicans wanted Bernie to win the nomination as he would easily have been characterized as someone the average American didn't want.

Trump isn't going to beat Hillary.


Okay, even if true, there is no data to show what these hypothetical attacks would have done to his numbers or his reputation. We do have objective data that shows him doing better in a national election.

Hypothetical Jay Cutler > Hypothetical Bernie

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:29 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Hillary took the high road during the primary. She didn't even campaign against Sanders. I wish she would've.


:lol: For what? She won the nomination. What would you have hoped she gained?

Again, I don't understand the sheer hatred for Sanders by HRC supporters. Even after defeating him, you guys can't stop ripping him.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:31 am 
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CNN is now trying to blame the government of russia for the DNC hack/release.


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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:32 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


if by winning elections you mean putting forth a candidate that is so disliked that would lose to anyone but Trump, I'd understand your point. But that's not the case. Bernie was more electable. Don't crap me now, no no.


They may be incorrect in their judgment but that doesn't dismiss my post

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:32 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


The RNC did the exact same thing to Newt and it wasn't much of a story. I think it's a story because there are people that want to admit that the better candidate won.

Was there actual sabotage or were there simply emails which displayed an interest in seeing Sanders lose?


The DNC was actively trying to generate negative stories about Sanders.That's sabotage.

Why are you using the muted reaction to the RNC's corruption 4 years ago to justify the DNC's current corruption? That makes no sense.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:37 am 
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long time guy wrote:
I think it's a story because there are people that want to admit that the better candidate won.



The better candidate won? The candidate that won is likely to end up embarrassing the Democratic Party the same way Nixon embarrassed Republicans. Whatever you think about Sanders, he wasn't going to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:42 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


Do you have anything that supports your belief on what they are supposed to do?

I'm willing to be swayed but in practice, every level of "regular democratic party" has favorites in primaries.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:54 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Bernie was more electable.
No he wasn't.

The guy lost the Democratic nomination by millions of votes to Hillary. Do you think Republicans were going to jump over to him more than Hillary?

He's less divisive. I can't believe I'm saying that but he is...
Republicans are going to be much more inclined to accept Hillary than Bernie. I can't believe you truly think otherwise.


Are you talking about Congressional Republicans? They wouldn't work with Clinton or Sanders.


They are much more likely to work with Hillary.


True, they will cooperate with her in passing the neoliberal parts of her agenda.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:55 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Hillary took the high road during the primary. She didn't even campaign against Sanders. I wish she would've.


:lol: For what? She won the nomination. What would you have hoped she gained?

Again, I don't understand the sheer hatred for Sanders by HRC supporters. Even after defeating him, you guys can't stop ripping him.


Don't hate the guy. I'm referring to earlier in the campaign. Bernie Sanders spent the vast majority of his campaign ripping Clinton. His supporters have continued this after he lost. The DNC didn't cost him the primary. Neither did the "establishment". The voters had their say as they should. What he was selling the majority weren't buying. The fact that he and his supporters are continuing the fight after being handily defeated is not really surprising either.

Howard Dean predicted that Sanders would react this way.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:01 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


The RNC did the exact same thing to Newt and it wasn't much of a story. I think it's a story because there are people that want to admit that the better candidate won.

Was there actual sabotage or were there simply emails which displayed an interest in seeing Sanders lose?


The DNC was actively trying to generate negative stories about Sanders.That's sabotage.

Why are you using the muted reaction to the RNC's corruption 4 years ago to justify the DNC's current corruption? That makes no sense.


Whatever negative stories they attempted to generate never saw the light of day. Corruption? It is corruption for DWS to want Hillary to win secretly?

RNC is relevant and so is history. They begin to coordinate with whomever they believe will win. There are no rules to it and I can't remember a single instance where the DNC openly campaigned against Sanders.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:08 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


Do you have anything that supports your belief on what they are supposed to do?

I'm willing to be swayed but in practice, every level of "regular democratic party" has favorites in primaries.


Yeah, the bylaws of the Democratic party sstate the following:

Quote:
In the conduct and management of the affairs and procedures of the Democratic National Committee, particularly as they apply to the preparation and conduct of the Presidential nomination process, the Chairperson shall exercise impartiality and evenhandedness as between the Presidential candidates and campaigns. The Chairperson shall be responsible for ensuring that the national officers and staff of the Democratic National Committee maintain impartiality and evenhandedness during the Democratic Party Presidential nominating process.


Article 5, Section 4

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:08 am 
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The national party office's biggest asset isn't in shaping message, anyway. That is done largely by individual candidates. Their most important asset is providing access to donor lists and get out the vote structure on election day.

Does everyone think the RNC wasn't playing favorites before Trump emerged?

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:11 am 
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I think it's a story because there are people that want to admit that the better candidate won.



The better candidate won? The candidate that won is likely to end up embarrassing the Democratic Party the same way Nixon embarrassed Republicans. Whatever you think about Sanders, he wasn't going to do that.

At what point will republicans accept that the Hill Dawg isn't going to prison?


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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:12 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


Do you have anything that supports your belief on what they are supposed to do?

I'm willing to be swayed but in practice, every level of "regular democratic party" has favorites in primaries.


Yeah, the bylaws of the Democratic party sstate the following:

Quote:
In the conduct and management of the affairs and procedures of the Democratic National Committee, particularly as they apply to the preparation and conduct of the Presidential nomination process, the Chairperson shall exercise impartiality and evenhandedness as between the Presidential candidates and campaigns. The Chairperson shall be responsible for ensuring that the national officers and staff of the Democratic National Committee maintain impartiality and evenhandedness during the Democratic Party Presidential nominating process.


Article 5, Section 4


Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:12 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


The RNC did the exact same thing to Newt and it wasn't much of a story. I think it's a story because there are people that want to admit that the better candidate won.

Was there actual sabotage or were there simply emails which displayed an interest in seeing Sanders lose?


The DNC was actively trying to generate negative stories about Sanders.That's sabotage.

Why are you using the muted reaction to the RNC's corruption 4 years ago to justify the DNC's current corruption? That makes no sense.


Whatever negative stories they attempted to generate never saw the light of day. Corruption? It is corruption for DWS to want Hillary to win secretly?

RNC is relevant and so is history. They begin to coordinate with whomever they believe will win. There are no rules to it and I can't remember a single instance where the DNC openly campaigned against Sanders.


The bylaws of the Democratic party call for evenhandedness and impartiality in the treatment of all candidates. You are simply wrong on this issue.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:13 am 
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Assange says he has some stuff he will release that will put Hillary in jail.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:15 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
The DNC is not there to promote all party candidates. It is there to win elections so that Democratic platform items can be realized.


yep. Funny how that gets lost in all of this. The RNC had no problem shutting Newt down in 2012. Their job is to raise money and hopefully help nominate the candidate that they believe has the best chance to win.


Huh? The DNC is supposed to be neutral during Democratic primaries. That's why this is a story.


Do you have anything that supports your belief on what they are supposed to do?

I'm willing to be swayed but in practice, every level of "regular democratic party" has favorites in primaries.


Yeah, the bylaws of the Democratic party sstate the following:

Quote:
In the conduct and management of the affairs and procedures of the Democratic National Committee, particularly as they apply to the preparation and conduct of the Presidential nomination process, the Chairperson shall exercise impartiality and evenhandedness as between the Presidential candidates and campaigns. The Chairperson shall be responsible for ensuring that the national officers and staff of the Democratic National Committee maintain impartiality and evenhandedness during the Democratic Party Presidential nominating process.


Article 5, Section 4


Wow, nicely done, TM.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:19 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Republicans are going to be much more inclined to accept Hillary than Bernie. I can't believe you truly think otherwise.


Basically every poll conducted says otherwise. This is not me espousing my opinion. Every poll conducted showed Sanders beating Trump handily as opposed to most polls that show Hillary and Trump neck-and-neck.
The thing is that Bernie never really stood up to the negative campaign ads that Hillary has. I know the supporters of Bernie don't like to admit it but there was a lot of things to attack him on. Hillary didn't do it to avoid making his supporters even more mad than they were but the Republicans certainly would have.

There are many articles that state the Republicans wanted Bernie to win the nomination as he would easily have been characterized as someone the average American didn't want.

Trump isn't going to beat Hillary.


Okay, even if true, there is no data to show what these hypothetical attacks would have done to his numbers or his reputation. We do have objective data that shows him doing better in a national election.

Hypothetical Jay Cutler > Hypothetical Bernie


If they are chomping at the bit to take Hillary on, then why is Manafort making statements like this?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... tyIA8l3lbg

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:20 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I think it's a story because there are people that want to admit that the better candidate won.



The better candidate won? The candidate that won is likely to end up embarrassing the Democratic Party the same way Nixon embarrassed Republicans. Whatever you think about Sanders, he wasn't going to do that.

At what point will republicans accept that the Hill Dawg isn't going to prison?


She's certainly not likely to go to prison, but it's not a stretch to think that something rears its head prior to the election or after she is elected that destroys her presidency.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:28 am 
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long time guy wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Republicans are going to be much more inclined to accept Hillary than Bernie. I can't believe you truly think otherwise.


Basically every poll conducted says otherwise. This is not me espousing my opinion. Every poll conducted showed Sanders beating Trump handily as opposed to most polls that show Hillary and Trump neck-and-neck.
The thing is that Bernie never really stood up to the negative campaign ads that Hillary has. I know the supporters of Bernie don't like to admit it but there was a lot of things to attack him on. Hillary didn't do it to avoid making his supporters even more mad than they were but the Republicans certainly would have.

There are many articles that state the Republicans wanted Bernie to win the nomination as he would easily have been characterized as someone the average American didn't want.

Trump isn't going to beat Hillary.


Okay, even if true, there is no data to show what these hypothetical attacks would have done to his numbers or his reputation. We do have objective data that shows him doing better in a national election.

Hypothetical Jay Cutler > Hypothetical Bernie


If they are chomping at the bit to take Hillary on, then why is Manafort making statements like this?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... tyIA8l3lbg


Is this an attempt to show how much Republicans would work across the aisle with Hillary? If so, I'm not sure what to disagree with.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:31 am 
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There's no reason for Republicans not to work with Hillary. She's essentially running as a Burkean conservative: everything's fine, let's keep doing what we're doing, and any issues that do come up can be addressed at a cautious pace by the wealthy and well-educated. Sounds like something Mitt Romney would have said, especially now that Romney and Hillary both think Russia is their greatest enemy.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:32 am 
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long time guy wrote:
If they are chomping at the bit to take Hillary on, then why is Manafort making statements like this?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... tyIA8l3lbg


So they should not attack her? She is the nominee.

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:33 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Republicans are going to be much more inclined to accept Hillary than Bernie. I can't believe you truly think otherwise.


Basically every poll conducted says otherwise. This is not me espousing my opinion. Every poll conducted showed Sanders beating Trump handily as opposed to most polls that show Hillary and Trump neck-and-neck.
The thing is that Bernie never really stood up to the negative campaign ads that Hillary has. I know the supporters of Bernie don't like to admit it but there was a lot of things to attack him on. Hillary didn't do it to avoid making his supporters even more mad than they were but the Republicans certainly would have.

There are many articles that state the Republicans wanted Bernie to win the nomination as he would easily have been characterized as someone the average American didn't want.

Trump isn't going to beat Hillary.


Okay, even if true, there is no data to show what these hypothetical attacks would have done to his numbers or his reputation. We do have objective data that shows him doing better in a national election.

Hypothetical Jay Cutler > Hypothetical Bernie
We also have data to show that Hillary got people excited to vote for her by millions more with Democrats.

Do you think Trump is going to beat Hillary?

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 Post subject: Re: DNC Leaks
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:36 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
There's no reason for Republicans not to work with Hillary. She's essentially running as a Burkean conservative: everything's fine, let's keep doing what we're doing, and any issues that do come up can be addressed at a cautious pace by the wealthy and well-educated. Sounds like something Mitt Romney would have said, especially now that Romney and Hillary both think Russia is their greatest enemy.


Some oppose her on ideological grounds. Others oppose her based on partisanship. Still others personally despise her.

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