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IMU
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:10 pm 
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312player wrote:
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I'm actually trying to think over the past 5 years what starter under the age of 28 under a good contract got moved and what the price was.

Any help would be appreciated.



Jake Arietta
Gio Gonzalez


I'll think of more

Who?

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:12 pm 
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One Post wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

If I trade Quintana, I will spend the next five years looking for a Quintana (I'll spend a lifetime looking for a Sale). A young, established, cheap, workhorse pitcher is as unique of an item on the trading block as there is in baseball. If I don't trade him today, someone will make me another offer in the off season and then another at the next trading deadline for the next several seasons.


I'm not saying there won't be offers, but if your price just to kick the tires is what the Diamondbacks gave for Miller, you'll be expecting an offer that isn't there.

Also, if you wait several seasons on the offer, Quintana will no longer be young, and you're hoping that he's still a workhorse. An injured pitcher is not a unique item in the baseball universe, for most pitchers it is going to happen.

I can understand the price on Quintana being high, I'm just not sure that the Shelby Miller deal sets the market. The D-backs got universally panned on that deal from the outset and with Miller at AAA, it's even worse.


All of these are unique items anyway so there is no a=b. I think the market for Quintana is an MLB player with no less than 1 year of eligible time, a top prospect with an ETA of less than one year, a top low level prospect and one wild card type (underperformer with a lot of unmet potential for whatever reason).

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:13 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Go ahead and find all these unrealistic adjectives that were used to describe him, dolphin


research projects get handed to associates.

Have a go at it.

Just as I thought.


OOH, you got me so mad I'm just going to do it now

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312player
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:14 pm 
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IMU wrote:
312player wrote:
One Post wrote:
I'm actually trying to think over the past 5 years what starter under the age of 28 under a good contract got moved and what the price was.

Any help would be appreciated.



Jake Arietta
Gio Gonzalez


I'll think of more

Who?





Cole Hamel's too

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:14 pm 
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312player wrote:
One Post wrote:
I'm actually trying to think over the past 5 years what starter under the age of 28 under a good contract got moved and what the price was.

Any help would be appreciated.



Jake Arietta
Gio Gonzalez


I'll think of more


Jake was on a scrap heap. His acquisition is like the Quintana acquisition where it is just a matter of luck.

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One Post
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:15 pm 
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312player wrote:
One Post wrote:
I'm actually trying to think over the past 5 years what starter under the age of 28 under a good contract got moved and what the price was.

Any help would be appreciated.



Jake Arietta
Gio Gonzalez


I'll think of more


Arietta was garbage when they moved him.

Gonzalez works. The A's didn't even get a top 25 prospect back for him. One top 50, two top 75s, and a throw in.

I'd say the Garza deal with the Cubs/Rays qualifies also. A top 40 prospect in Archer, a top 85ish in Lee, and 3 bodies.

I just think that Shelby Miller deal where you get a top 10 guy, a top 50 guy, and a sub-25 year old valuable regular is a huge outlier.
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One Post
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:16 pm 
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312player wrote:
IMU wrote:
312player wrote:
One Post wrote:
I'm actually trying to think over the past 5 years what starter under the age of 28 under a good contract got moved and what the price was.

Any help would be appreciated.



Jake Arietta
Gio Gonzalez


I'll think of more

Who?


Hamels is on the wrong side of 30 and that contract isn't the friendliest. Not really what we are looking for here.




Cole Hamel's too
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One Post
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:21 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:

All of these are unique items anyway so there is no a=b. I think the market for Quintana is an MLB player with no less than 1 year of eligible time, a top prospect with an ETA of less than one year, a top low level prospect and one wild card type (underperformer with a lot of unmet potential for whatever reason).


I guess I just look what you want as incredibly difficult to get to. A top prospect with an ETA of less than one year? How many of those guys are out there? 10 at the most at any time.

So you're looking at needing one of those ten guys, at a minimum to get the deal done. How many of those teams are going to be looking to deal? 1? maybe 0?

You might be so constricting the market that it shuts out all trade partners.
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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:23 pm 
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One Post wrote:
312player wrote:
One Post wrote:
I'm actually trying to think over the past 5 years what starter under the age of 28 under a good contract got moved and what the price was.

Any help would be appreciated.



Jake Arietta
Gio Gonzalez


I'll think of more


Arietta was garbage when they moved him.

Gonzalez works. The A's didn't even get a top 25 prospect back for him. One top 50, two top 75s, and a throw in.

I'd say the Garza deal with the Cubs/Rays qualifies also. A top 40 prospect in Archer, a top 85ish in Lee, and 3 bodies.

I just think that Shelby Miller deal where you get a top 10 guy, a top 50 guy, and a sub-25 year old valuable regular is a huge outlier.


Garza was 29 and going into his last year

Maybe Gio, as he was young (even a little younger than Q), established but with only two years until FA eligibility.

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:25 pm 
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One Post wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

All of these are unique items anyway so there is no a=b. I think the market for Quintana is an MLB player with no less than 1 year of eligible time, a top prospect with an ETA of less than one year, a top low level prospect and one wild card type (underperformer with a lot of unmet potential for whatever reason).


I guess I just look what you want as incredibly difficult to get to. A top prospect with an ETA of less than one year? How many of those guys are out there? 10 at the most at any time.

So you're looking at needing one of those ten guys, at a minimum to get the deal done. How many of those teams are going to be looking to deal? 1? maybe 0?

You might be so constricting the market that it shuts out all trade partners.


The Sox aren't really consulting with me.

I am trying to talk to my guy to get one of those giveaway jerseys from Saturday, so I do have some pull.

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One Post
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:28 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
One Post wrote:
312player wrote:
One Post wrote:
I'm actually trying to think over the past 5 years what starter under the age of 28 under a good contract got moved and what the price was.

Any help would be appreciated.



Jake Arietta
Gio Gonzalez


I'll think of more


Arietta was garbage when they moved him.

Gonzalez works. The A's didn't even get a top 25 prospect back for him. One top 50, two top 75s, and a throw in.

I'd say the Garza deal with the Cubs/Rays qualifies also. A top 40 prospect in Archer, a top 85ish in Lee, and 3 bodies.

I just think that Shelby Miller deal where you get a top 10 guy, a top 50 guy, and a sub-25 year old valuable regular is a huge outlier.


Garza was 29 and going into his last year

Maybe Gio, as he was young (even a little younger than Q), established but with only two years until FA eligibility.


Garza was 27 in his first year with the Cubs (2011)? Also I think he was still arb eligible.
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One Post
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:31 pm 
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Ubaldo Jimemez went to Cleveland for Pomeranz (probably your MLB ready guy at the time), a 70-ish prospect and two corpses.
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One Post
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:32 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
One Post wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

All of these are unique items anyway so there is no a=b. I think the market for Quintana is an MLB player with no less than 1 year of eligible time, a top prospect with an ETA of less than one year, a top low level prospect and one wild card type (underperformer with a lot of unmet potential for whatever reason).


I guess I just look what you want as incredibly difficult to get to. A top prospect with an ETA of less than one year? How many of those guys are out there? 10 at the most at any time.

So you're looking at needing one of those ten guys, at a minimum to get the deal done. How many of those teams are going to be looking to deal? 1? maybe 0?

You might be so constricting the market that it shuts out all trade partners.


The Sox aren't really consulting with me.

I am trying to talk to my guy to get one of those giveaway jerseys from Saturday, so I do have some pull.


Either you want to discuss what the trade market could be for Quintana or you want to make awful jokes. You make the call.
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TurdFerguson
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:35 pm 
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The problem for the Sox is his trade value is impossibly high. Whatever amount a team were to give up for him, the trading team could flip him again in a year for nearly the same if not more. The trade they make to the Sox would set the bar for a future trade of Chris Sale. The only real risk being a injury as his talent is a pretty known commodity at this point.
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Big Chicagoan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:40 pm 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
The problem for the Sox is his trade value is impossibly high. Whatever amount a team were to give up for him, the trading team could flip him again in a year for nearly the same if not more. The trade they make to the Sox would set the bar for a future trade of Chris Sale. The only real risk being a injury as his talent is a pretty known commodity at this point.


A byproduct of what the Cubs have done is completely overvalue the trade market, which may actually work in their favor. Other teams will ask for more in return for their players, which other teams will not want to meet. So other contenders may have to pay up to get help or forego making trades at all.
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One Post
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:41 pm 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
The problem for the Sox is his trade value is impossibly high. Whatever amount a team were to give up for him, the trading team could flip him again in a year for nearly the same if not more. The trade they make to the Sox would set the bar for a future trade of Chris Sale. The only real risk being a injury as his talent is a pretty known commodity at this point.


I disagree on the first point, Quintana's value goes down each year he (a) ages and (b) gets closer to FA. To take your point to an extreme, the most valuable Quintana will be in his last year of the deal which obviously isn't the case.
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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:44 pm 
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One Post wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
One Post wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

All of these are unique items anyway so there is no a=b. I think the market for Quintana is an MLB player with no less than 1 year of eligible time, a top prospect with an ETA of less than one year, a top low level prospect and one wild card type (underperformer with a lot of unmet potential for whatever reason).


I guess I just look what you want as incredibly difficult to get to. A top prospect with an ETA of less than one year? How many of those guys are out there? 10 at the most at any time.

So you're looking at needing one of those ten guys, at a minimum to get the deal done. How many of those teams are going to be looking to deal? 1? maybe 0?

You might be so constricting the market that it shuts out all trade partners.


The Sox aren't really consulting with me.

I am trying to talk to my guy to get one of those giveaway jerseys from Saturday, so I do have some pull.


Either you want to discuss what the trade market could be for Quintana or you want to make awful jokes. You make the call.


You don't dictate the terms of conversation as I'm able to work on both at the same time.

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:48 pm 
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One Post wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
The problem for the Sox is his trade value is impossibly high. Whatever amount a team were to give up for him, the trading team could flip him again in a year for nearly the same if not more. The trade they make to the Sox would set the bar for a future trade of Chris Sale. The only real risk being a injury as his talent is a pretty known commodity at this point.


I disagree on the first point, Quintana's value goes down each year he (a) ages and (b) gets closer to FA. To take your point to an extreme, the most valuable Quintana will be in his last year of the deal which obviously isn't the case.


That's not true. If he has a career year, his value goes higher even if his years of availability diminish. I think there is some sweet spot of years of control where anything greater does not incrementally increase his value.

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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Phil McCracken wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Peoria Matt wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
They gave up a hell of a lot more than what was first reported. It's a big time sellers market.


Torres #1 prospect who is blocked. Warren? Another bullpen/ spot starter guy. McKinney looks like another OF guy. For the top closer on the market I'll take it.


Keyser is just doing what Keyser does. JORR and Dolphin too...no matter what they do or don't do they are going to take the negative side of it. At least Frank was a voice of reason earlier about Chapmans past.

I cannot see how any Cub fan could be upset about this trade. As IMU pointed out, you gave up no player that was going to have any impact in the next 2-3 years.

They are going for it this year, and they did so in a way that they are still well positioned for the foreseeable future as well.

Like you I just don't see the downside here. Torres could be the next Ty Griffin for all we know.


I'm not taking a negative view of anything, but I would point out that no Cub fan would have said the large statement above yesterday.

I would have
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rogers park bryan
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:58 pm 
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One Post wrote:
I'm actually trying to think over the past 5 years what starter under the age of 28 under a good contract got moved and what the price was.

Any help would be appreciated.

Lee was 30
On July 29 (just before the July 31 trading deadline), the Indians traded Lee (along with outfielder Ben Francisco) to the Philadelphia Phillies in exchange for Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Lou Marson, and Jason Knapp.[16]
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Rod
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:59 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
WHEN HE WAS A CUB:

Elmhurst Steve wrote:
He is a guy many think can be the best SS of them all in a couple years. Figuring out where he will play/who to trade, will become crucial decisions for Hoyer and Epstein. Nice problem to have in some ways, but make the wrong decisions and it will haunt them.


RFDC wrote:
Saw this kid play this summer in south bend. He made a couple spectacular plays at SS. You could just tell he was the best player on the field for either team.


Buster wrote:
gotta love it

Signed for $1.7 million out of Venezuela as part of the Cubs' $8.2 million international signing spree in 2013, Torres was even better than advertised in his first year as a pro. He had no trouble making his U.S. debut at age 17 and easily handled a jump to the short-season Northwest League in August.

An extremely advanced hitter for his age, Torres has a quick, short right-handed stroke and handles the bat well. He uses the entire field and has good knowledge of the strike zone. He's not physically imposing but has some strength that could produce close to average power once he learns to turn on pitches more often.

Because he has just average speed and quickness, Torres may wind up at second base in the long run. But he looked better at shortstop than expected and his instincts may allow him to stay there. His strong arm will allow him to play anywhere in the infield.


ONCE HE GOT TRADED TO THE YANKEES:

Phil McCracken wrote:
Torres could be the next Ty Griffin for all we know.



Though I realize this is all fun and games, I have to point out that you used three people's quotes before and someone entirely different as the fourth.

It would be like us making you answer for Frank's posts as though you are both a single mind.


The point is, there are no Cub fans in those threads saying, "Nah, he's probably like Ty Griffin."

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312player
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:01 pm 
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How bout CC getting traded to Milwaukee? Those " top " prospects never amounted to dick.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:02 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:

You don't dictate the terms of conversation as I'm able to work on both at the same time.


Maybe you should put a little more or less effort (not sure which one) into your jokes.
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TurdFerguson
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:07 pm 
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One Post wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
The problem for the Sox is his trade value is impossibly high. Whatever amount a team were to give up for him, the trading team could flip him again in a year for nearly the same if not more. The trade they make to the Sox would set the bar for a future trade of Chris Sale. The only real risk being a injury as his talent is a pretty known commodity at this point.


I disagree on the first point, Quintana's value goes down each year he (a) ages and (b) gets closer to FA. To take your point to an extreme, the most valuable Quintana will be in his last year of the deal which obviously isn't the case.


I was only speaking of Sale, Quintana's are traded every now and then. Sale's are not. Its conceivable to ride Sale to a world series with him as your best player. You pair him with another ace you have the formula of the diamondbacks title. The biggest problem in trading Sale is it requires a contender with a loaded farm system that isn't at the major league level AND legitimate shot at the world series.
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Nas
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:10 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
One Post wrote:
When the Cubs front office decided to move Torres, and McKinny, or any other player what they become is a non-issue.

It's what you get back for them at that point. Whether he's Ty Griffin or Ryne Sandberg in the future, he's an asset right now, and you've got to maximize your return on an asset.

The Royals had a whole bunch of assets last year and they turned them into Johnny Cueto and Ben Zobrist.

Did the Cubs maximize the return on their assets as it stands now? I dunno, 30-40 innings of Chapman over the next 60 games and X number of playoff games, he better make them count.

My ultimate feeling as well.

The opportunity cost of trading Gleyber is what bugs me. If he was deemed expendable then I'd rather have used him in a package for a young starter. The Cubs rotation the past two years has had ridiculously great luck with over-30 starters making 4/5th of the rotation.


This is how I feel. Much easier to find a closer than a starter.

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312player
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:11 pm 
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Matt Laporta and three other bums for a 28 year old CC Sabathia .

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good dolphin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:12 pm 
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One Post wrote:
good dolphin wrote:

You don't dictate the terms of conversation as I'm able to work on both at the same time.


Maybe you should put a little more or less effort (not sure which one) into your jokes.


effort rarely makes a joke better or worse

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312player
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:13 pm 
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I like the deal, getting that shitbag Warren out of here is addition by subtraction. I think Torres will be okay, nothing special and McKinney is garbage.

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One Post
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:16 pm 
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312player wrote:
Matt Laporta and three other bums for a 28 year old CC Sabathia .


Uh, Michael Brantley has been doing MVP type things the past few years.
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312player
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:20 pm 
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You're right..Brantley is pretty good..but Laporta was the centerpiece and he sucked.

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