^^^> one of the dumbest posts I've ever read




Major market team that doesn't pay the luxury tax or attract key free agents..total dysfunction from the inept top to the bottom in both his franchises, caught lightning In a bottle in 05 and caught lightning in a bottle with MJ .... Lol @ when does he but in? ...the hiring and firing of management is pretty much all on him, The greatest of all time left his team twice because his stupid ass thinks and acts like fat fucking turds in suits win championships.. The greatest pitcher in white Sox history agrees...its so obvious you can't possibly ignore it.

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He hasn't been an owner for just 5 or 10 years.

Historically the Sox and Bulls had drafted well, paid players when warranted, and the owner stayed out of the day to day operations.

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The Sox have drafted well?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Reinsdorf let Himes trade his favorite player in '89.

Sale isn't in the top 5 Sox pitchers of all time. Maybe after this year, though.

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Sale is the best I've seen in my lifetime, who ya got ahead of him?

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Buehrle (he's won about 90 more games for the Sox)
Jack McDowell
Not in my lifetime:
Billy Pierce
Ted Lyons
Red Faber

Sale's about at Jack McDowell's level right now. Likely will pass him after this year...if he keeps winning. Sale doesn't finish well. (Could be his team, though.) McDowell fizzled, but he was the team's leader from 90-94. Of course, his leadership style was similar to Sale's....which ain't saying much....

Anyway, McDowell got the victories. Sometimes Sale just sucks ass.

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Not recently.

The Himes-Schuler years were SOLID.

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I never heard of 3 of those guys...but Buerhle n McDowell were never on Sales level..neither were considered amongst the best in mlb ...

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That is completely false. Mcdowell was a stud and won the Cy Young Award.

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Karkovice, McDowell, Robin, Frank, Alex Fernandez? I think they drafted those guys pretty much in order. Karko may have been a year or two earlier.

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Looking at first round picks over the last 30 years

A four year fun of McDowell, Ventura, Thomas, and Fernandez is a great run no doubt.

But you add Sale into that mix and get 5 really good picks...

5 really good picks in 30 years.....is that drafting well?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

McDowell was one of the five best pitchers in the game from 91-94. He didn't have a good record in 94, but still a tough pitcher. Shoulda won 20 three years straight and woulda if Jeff Torborg hadn't insisted on a no-longer-effective Thigpen.

Buehrle: Consistency and longetivity. I'll take 'em. Also, if you're gay and an assman, he had much more of an ass than McDowell or Sale combined. I like da ladiez, but...come on....we all notice.

Billy Pierce was the mainstay of the Sox staff in their heyday from 51-67. Met him a few times--great guy. Apparently an excellent pitcher, too. The other two go way back and pitched for some of the worst Sox teams ever.

So Sale's got some work to do.

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Karko was 82, McDowell was 87

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

It isn't, but I think his point was that Himes and Schu (at least initially) did a good job?

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His point was that historically the Sox have drafted well.

I don't think history proves his point.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Ah, gotcha. I forgot Karko came up before those guys were drafted. Still, a good pick. Before him, all I know is Baines 77! And Denny McLain, whom the Sox picked but wouldn't gamble on.

EDIT: I don't think they drafted McClain but signed him instead.

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Himes did a good job, though. I think once they drafted Ruffcorn, the end was nigh.

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He was in the top 5 in the AL twice from 91-94 ( if you go by war) not " in the game "


Sale is no doubt about it a top 5 starter in mlb the last 5 years and he's just getting started...you can't say that about Buerhle or blackjack.

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I have to agree with 312player here. Sale is already better than Buehrle and McDowell. The only Sox pitchers you could really make a case for as being better than Sale are Ed Walsh and Billy Pierce.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

IMU = Wrong

FF, America, myself = Right


And that is the end of it.

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Jerry has owned teams for a total of 65 years. He has 7 titles in that time period. There are not many owners with a better record than that.
Jerry Buss is. Peter Holt is not because we can't count his record with the "greatest PF of all time" either. I'd love to hear your rationale for Cuban though. I love Shark Tank too but there is no argument that Mark Cuban has been better as a whole than Reinsdorf. Cuban is right now but that isn't what we are talking about.
Championships don't mean everything. They just mean a lot. As Peeps pointed out though, if you want to ignore championships Jerry's teams have been very competitive up until the past few years. The Sox won a ton of games and the Bulls had a down period after Jordan but they were a high seed for a long time and a playoff team pretty much every year. So Jerry can compete well both with number of championships won, and your metric which seems to be years of competitiveness.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I believe its sort of shrouded because over the last 6-8 years its not been real good with Jerry's teams. The Sox have won ONE playoff game since 2005 (2005 ), and while the Bulls have been in the playoffs pretty consistently, they have only been past the 2nd round of the playoffs once since Jordan left. None of his teams have really been a true title threat since probably the '06 Sox. I know you can't blame Jerry for all of the Rose injuries which is just a lot of bad luck. However since he has been back the Bulls have been a trainwreck and he is probably a big reason why.

I do think, or hope anyway, that things with the Sox will get a lot better once Reinsdorf passes.

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Longevity matters (Buehrle)

And the next big game Sale wins will be his first. McDowell won a few.

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Ed Walsh pitched in a different sport.

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what if jordan did not fall in to their lap at pick #3....? he'd be 1 for 65. counterpoint, if jordan's dad had not been murdered he may be 9 for 65

If Jerry would of gotten rid of Krause, you might have that 9.

If Lebron had decided to come here with Wade he would have 9 or 10 titles.

Or we could just use what actually happened which was pretty good without hypotheticals.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Reinsdorf teams ain't done much lately (ooh oooh ooooh yeah), but without him, from 1970 (the year of my birth) until 2009:

Sting 1981
Bears 1985

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Of course, it's a game of time and repetition. And Sale may not have the career Buehrle did, but his peak is already so much higher I have no problem calling Sale the best Sox starter in my lifetime.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don