I don't think this is a game. It's unfortunate you keep posting bullshit sentences like "non stop Muslim bash fest" to try and prove a non existent point based on a lack of historical fact and context. Then you try and act like I'm defending actions i clearly stated I was not in agreement with.

If you want to have a discussion about conquests, current political landscapes and 20th century US aggression, I'm good with that.

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I had the same impression. Which is why I said if you want to play the ends justify the means, it's all the same.

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I'm absolutely not making that argument. I just find it interesting that U.S actions are always ignored in these situations. Once again it's a thread about those wacky Muslims with their way out religion and customs.

Mind you the U.S drops bombs in their countries, overthrow governments, props up governments that violate human rights, imposes their political system, establishes military bases etc. All the while expecting that there won't be a reaction. American exceptionalism is merely a theory. I think some people really believe in that garbage.

The actions of Muslims in the Middle East (relative to the U.S.)is in direct response to what the U.S. has done. We can continue down the road of selectively referencing if we want or we can choose to look at history. It is the history of U.S. intervention which has gotten us to this point.

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I'm not sure what you mean by "follow" in this context. Do you mean that you have an understanding of a religious culture due to being raised in it? If so, yes. I'll always be a cultural Catholic. But faith is like being pregnant. Either you are or you aren't. There really is no such thing as "sort of Catholic" or "sort of Muslim."

Muslims believe the Koran is the perfect Word of God as dictated to his Messenger Mohammed. I guess you can call yourself a Muslim without believing such if you want to, in which case I might be a Muslim.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Iran's aggression against the United States can be directly traced to the U.S sponsored overthrow Mohammed Mossadegh in 1953. There is some historical context for you. I can also provide other examples as well.

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You're generalizing, and being dismissive. Faith is like being pregnant? I almost went with your analogy because it sounds good, but there's gotta be people all around the world who question their faith.

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Reminds me of one of my friends, who says (and it goes for me, too), "I'm as Catholic as the Pope, but an agnostic."

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Persia, on the other hand, never invaded no one.

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Well sure. Even Jesus got a little shaky up on the cross. Isn't that the entire point of religion? The struggle against the flesh? But there is a difference between having questions and simply ignoring key elements of a faith you supposedly believe in. I'm not being dismissive. Nobody has to believe in something they don't want to. I just don't see the point in pretending. It's like bernstein pretending to be Sox fan. Why claim to be a Christian when it's clear to all you are a heathen?

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Freedom is our Strength.

France got their hands dirty in Algeria back in the 1950's.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/fra ... 36901.html

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

I'm not sure that is a universally held belief, but the US shouldn't be deciding which Muslim runs Iran.

What do you think accounts for Iran's aggression against so many other countries, especially in the Middle East?

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At least the discussion groups for racists are pretty clearly marked.

It is not a universally held belief because it doesn't serve U S. interests to admit it. That is exactly what happened. That's the problem. Too many generalizations and too much bias.

American exceptionalism is based on fallacy yet it has been used to provide excuses for U.S. actions for decades. It also has a "Christian" component which provides cover for U.S. interventions. How often does anyone in this country ever mention it? Is it an example of a wacky religious belief held by the U.S. Govt. and its citizens?

Yes you can admit that you don't think the U.S should be the arbiter but that does nothing for the people of Iran. There were consequences for them as a result of U.S actions in their country.

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It was in the Bill Maher thread.

All Muslims don't believe anything. All Christians don't either unless of course you don't believe that I am a Christian.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

How you guys feel about women wearing hijabs, niqabs, or burkas or any general subjagation in the US regardless of religion, ethnicity, or culture?

I'm about as progressive as it comes on women issues (except abortion) but I think it's up to the woman to decide what she wants to wear. I understand in parts of the world she doesn't have that option.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Absolutely hate it.

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I think it's a woman's choice. I work with a Muslim woman and she is extremely proud of both her Palestinian and Muslim heritage. She wears her garb everyday and is submissive towards her husband allegedly.

It doesn't jive with American customs and mores but she appears to be content with it.

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Some don't have that option here. My worry is lack of assimilation in to American culture and keeping ideologies that are diametrically opposed to ours.

Don't like it

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You believe she has a choice? Or could do something if she was not?

If I were to guess I'd say that she has a choice because she lives in America. I have never talked with her about how her faith and upbringing affects her thinking. She does seem casual and cool while at work but the word is she straightens up when he comes on the set.

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That the US intervened is indisputable. It isn't a universally held belief as to why it occurred. Money and power were the main reasons the US was involved.

I have no idea what American exceptionalism has to do with this. Or the "Christian" angle as well.

You are doing the same thing here again that Brick also pointed out. The US did this, therefore there response is OK.

I have not defended US intervention here. And I'm well aware of the consequences of our actions. The atomic bomb has been used more than once as an excuse to do evil by others.

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We have a family that sounds similar at our school. I would think it would be stressful.

I think so too. It seems like work is one of the places in which she can let her hair down strangely enough. It seems like it should be the opposite way around.

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He didn't even post in that thread.

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=101208&p=2507802&hilit=Bill+Maher#p2507802

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If American intervention was the cause of terrorist groups then you think the answer would be easy. They say if you stop bombing and attacking our citizens we will disband. We say ok and all of a sudden terrorism is gone as they got their wish. Does anyone think that would work?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The thread was deleted by BF. I said earlier this year or last year not 3 weeks ago.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

That the US intervened is indisputable. It isn't a universally held belief as to why it occurred. Money and power were the main reasons the US was involved.

I have no idea what American exceptionalism has to do with this. Or the "Christian" angle as well.

You are doing the same thing here again that Brick also pointed out. The US did this, therefore there response is OK.

I have not defended US intervention here. And I'm well aware of the consequences of our actions. The atomic bomb has been used more than once as an excuse to do evil by others.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

]The actions that I described are still occurring though. I'm not saying that you are defending them but it sure seems as though you are ignoring them. Each action is currently occurring somewhere in the Middle East. What would be an adequate U.S. response if those same actions were to occur in the United States? There isn't a Middle Eastern base here, nor a bombing campaign, nor overthrow of leader by Middle Easterners, nor imposition of political philosophy.

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"Terrorists groups" is a generalization. Not all terrorists groups are out to destroy Western civilization. Most could frankly care less about the United States.

Hezbollah was created because of U.S. intervention in Iran and the Middle East. AL Queda was not created because of the U.S. but they targeted the U.S. because of intervention in the Middle East. ISIS is an outgrowth of U S. intervention in Iraq.

Would we be as accepting of similar actions if these actions were conducted by Middle Easterners in the U.S.?

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