Ha. You got a hell of an eye.

More hiding the ball. This is prestidigitation rather than clarification. You're taking something very simple and burying it in percentages and rates, not to illuminate but rather to obscure.

Yes, the White Sox have scored less than their overall average when Quintana is on the mound. That is apparent with nothing more than a quick glance at his ERA and W/L record. Why you feel the Sox scoring average in Quintana's games is somehow more relevant than their overall scoring average, I'm not sure. It seems to suggest you feel as if this lack of offense is somehow connected to the presence of Quintana on the mound rather than a result of circumstances unrelated to him which may be limiting run scoring by both teams in the games that he pitches.

If you do indeed believe that Quintana is "cursed" or "unlucky" and the White Sox are destined to score less due to nothing more than his name on the lineup card, I would submit that I don't want a starting pitcher on my team that limits the offense in such a manner. That is a point that Big Chicagoan was attempting to make, apparently without success.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

JORR, I thought this post was supposed to be funny, like something straight out of The Onion.

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I think it is supposed to be funny. I may be misreading him, but my impression was that he was making fun of the idea that the Sox are some how a worse offensive team when Quintana takes the mound, which seems to be a position many here hold. In any case, many refuse to credit the pitchers that are shutting down the White Sox while they are cheering Quintana for shutting down his opponent to a lesser degree.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

that's because shutting down the White Sox offense is not anything remarkable whatsoever....Rick could go out there and lob some 40mph softballs and probably still pitch a 3 hit shutout

It may seem like that, but of course that isn't true. As I've gone over time after time, the difference between the Sox and most teams they face is a fraction of a run in average game scoring. And in some instances neither team may have its best lineup in the game.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

maybe it seems like that because their offense is ranked 26th out of 30 teams ?

And yet there are great hitting lineups and terrible hitting lineups. Those fractions you refer to come from averages. But they aren't fractions of a run in a game situation...and you love your game situations.

Team A outscoring Team B by 161 runs over a full season is a HUGE difference.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Because you made the argument that Quintana is simply out-pitched more often than not, and this shows that is not the case: Quintana limits other teams' scoring relative to their average more than the other team limits the Sox relative to theirs. BRick wanted me to show the numbers, so I did, and you wet your Depends about sample size, so I found a way to calculate something very similar for Quintana's entire career.

There must be something else that explains Quintana's pedestrian W/L%, because everything else that tells us (more, and better) about a pitcher puts him at the top of the league.

And as has been explained to you time after time: a simple "fraction of a run in average game scoring" difference can and does result in wildly different distribution of game totals, because each total can only resolve to the nearest whole run. Over 162 games, a difference of even 0.2 R/G can be significant.

Right, but again all but the top five teams average less than a full run more per game than the Sox. Are you really suggesting that a Great Cy Young Candidate Top Ten Pitcher In The Majors shouldn't be able to overcome that the majority of the time?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

We're not talking about 162 games. We're talking about single games being pitched by a supposed GREAT CY YOUNG CANDIDATE TOP TEN PITCHER IN THE MAJORS.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Right, but Team A outscoring Team B by .9 of a run is impossible. And those averages weren't established vs. GREAT CY YOUNG CANDIDATE TOP TEN PITCHERS IN THE MAJORS.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

They incorporate all pitchers, so yes...your top 10 are in there. And your bottom 10 and everyone in between.

Has a good offense never knocked around an ace? Hell even bad teams do it here and there.

You put pitchers up on some sky high pedestal.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Technically, you are the one putting Quintana on the pedestal.

I don't think that is the correct way to use "technically."

And no. Jose Quintana is a #2 on almost any team...and could be a #1 on more than several. White Sox fans have just decided to make him a scapegoat because they'd rather blame one pitcher than identify that their entire lineup is one of the weakest in baseball.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

i troll sox chat boards all day and never seen a sox fan who didn't love quintana.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Everyone outside of JORR loves him.

Even though he's a loser.

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Because Sox fans are idiots.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Enjoy the Cubs game today JORRstein!

_________________

no they are morons not idiots.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I am going, but I'm not sure they're gonna play.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Quintana has a stronger argument for the AL Cy Young than overrated lunatic Chris Sale.

No.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Abreu's son in Miami watching his pops play MLB for first time.

That's awesome. Hope Jose hits one out tonight for his boy.

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

I luuv the Wimparoo.

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Mattingly second challenge on Sox runners touching second base... 0 for 2, Don.

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

It's been entertaining for sure.

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

Frazier looks like he's never played baseball before. Lunging and flailing at everything letting go of the bat. For fuck sake stay back on something.