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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:38 am 
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Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Yeah, I can see the World Series championship holding up re-signing him. At the same time, I can't see Ricketts not shelling out whatever he needs to in order to re-sign him.

Let's say, God forbid, we are sitting here in two years without a World Series win that was the direct result of starting and or relief pitching shitting the bed in the playoffs. Do you fire Theo and change your organizational philosophy to find and develop pitching?

Hoffy, like 9 of their first 10 picks in the draft this year were pitchers.

... And they may have gotten a steal with that Hatch kid in the 3rd round.


Do you feel this regime under Theo has successfully developed pitching?

I'm not claiming Theo is a failure by any means. The people he has surrounded himself with have now drafted, signed and/or developed five MVP caliber players on the current roster, never mind the fact they could potentially have six starting all-star position players every year for the next 5-7 years (Bryant, Baez, Contreras, Rizzo, Russell and Schwarber). Unfortunately, I just don't have confidence that the starting staff and bullpen provide the balance needed to win a World Series. I don't trust Lackey, Lester and Hammel to win in the playoffs. Honestly, I'm a little worried about Arrieta as well. The bullpen is obviously much better now with Chapman, but getting to him could be an adventure.


Agree with all your points Hoffy. I think it's painfully obvious Thoyer went all in on offensive talent to start the rebuild. They have pieced together the majority of their pitching staff, and yes it is going to be the Achilles heel of this team in the playoffs when the temp drops and bats naturally get cold.

My point previously was now the focus has been changed to developing pitching for Thoyer. I don't think even management believed this team would take the giant steps it has taken the last 2 years. They are behind on pitching development no doubt, but I also think they are ahead of schedule on the rebuild.

Could the lack of homegrown pitching be used as leverage against Theo in contract negotiations (especially without a World Series)? Any smart owner would do that. Ricketts owes Theo a lot to say the least, but he also has to be a businessman. I personally don't see any scenario where Theo just leaves, but I could be wrong.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:51 am 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Yeah, I can see the World Series championship holding up re-signing him. At the same time, I can't see Ricketts not shelling out whatever he needs to in order to re-sign him.

Let's say, God forbid, we are sitting here in two years without a World Series win that was the direct result of starting and or relief pitching shitting the bed in the playoffs. Do you fire Theo and change your organizational philosophy to find and develop pitching?

Hoffy, like 9 of their first 10 picks in the draft this year were pitchers.

... And they may have gotten a steal with that Hatch kid in the 3rd round.


Do you feel this regime under Theo has successfully developed pitching?

I'm not claiming Theo is a failure by any means. The people he has surrounded himself with have now drafted, signed and/or developed five MVP caliber players on the current roster, never mind the fact they could potentially have six starting all-star position players every year for the next 5-7 years (Bryant, Baez, Contreras, Rizzo, Russell and Schwarber). Unfortunately, I just don't have confidence that the starting staff and bullpen provide the balance needed to win a World Series. I don't trust Lackey, Lester and Hammel to win in the playoffs. Honestly, I'm a little worried about Arrieta as well. The bullpen is obviously much better now with Chapman, but getting to him could be an adventure.


Agree with all your points Hoffy. I think it's painfully obvious Thoyer went all in on offensive talent to start the rebuild. They have pieced together the majority of their pitching staff, and yes it is going to be the Achilles heel of this team in the playoffs when the temp drops and bats naturally get cold.

My point previously was now the focus has been changed to developing pitching for Thoyer. I don't think even management believed this team would take the giant steps it has taken the last 2 years. They are behind on pitching development no doubt, but I also think they are ahead of schedule on the rebuild.

Could the lack of homegrown pitching be used as leverage against Theo in contract negotiations (especially without a World Series)? Any smart owner would do that. Ricketts owes Theo a lot to say the least, but he also has to be a businessman. I personally don't see any scenario where Theo just leaves, but I could be wrong.









Ricketts isn't a smart owner, Take Epstein away and he's fucked.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:55 am 
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I agree, but Ricketts is a businessman with business advisors surrounding him.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:07 pm 
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Newhart was a long time Oak Park guy before he got into television. Not surprised he's a Cub fan. But somebody needs to feed him.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:47 pm 
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312player wrote:

Ricketts isn't a smart owner, Take Epstein away and he's fucked.


I don't disagree with the first part, but Epstein/Hoyer haven't proven themselves yet. They are currently reaping the benefits of a tank job, where the owner gave them the luxury (or the mandate) to be bad for five years. Bryant was the direct result of being bad, and free agent signings have been hit or miss. Given the same latitude, I think there are MANY general managers who could have done the same.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:58 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Epstein/Hoyer haven't proven themselves yet


I think the Boston Red Sox might disagree with that notion.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:00 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
312player wrote:

Ricketts isn't a smart owner, Take Epstein away and he's fucked.


I don't disagree with the first part, but Epstein/Hoyer haven't proven themselves yet. They are currently reaping the benefits of a tank job, where the owner gave them the luxury (or the mandate) to be bad for five years. Bryant was the direct result of being bad, and free agent signings have been hit or miss. Given the same latitude, I think there are MANY general managers who could have done the same.

To hit on the majority of their acquisitions, and high draft picks is definitely something a lot of GMs struggle with. They are proven. That's why they were given total freedom.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:50 pm 
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This is awesome. Vin. Neat.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:51 pm 
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Vin is baseball sex.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:53 pm 
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This is the best 3rd inning ever.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:56 pm 
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Even Vin Scully can't mention Kris Bryant without mentioning Bryce Harper. Fuck this sport.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:04 pm 
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Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Even Vin Scully can't mention Kris Bryant without mentioning Bryce Harper. Fuck this sport.


:roll:

ANYWAY.... Vin Scully is the best. Well done.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:05 pm 
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That was worth the hype, 300 sneakers and getting to hear Vin call Fowler "boy".

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:07 pm 
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What a great 3rd inning broadcast, now back to these two pussies.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:07 pm 
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A bummer neither team did much in either half inning.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:08 pm 
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312player wrote:
What a great 3rd inning broadcast, now back to these two pussies.

You tell 'em, horseshit ... you've been on the road.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:09 pm 
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He says more words in an inning than Hawks gets says in an entire game. Possible a series if blowouts are involved.

Great listen. Although I get the feeling he has a lot in common with the old guy at the gym that gets you into conversations and doesn't let you leave.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:10 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
312player wrote:

Ricketts isn't a smart owner, Take Epstein away and he's fucked.


I don't disagree with the first part, but Epstein/Hoyer haven't proven themselves yet. They are currently reaping the benefits of a tank job, where the owner gave them the luxury (or the mandate) to be bad for five years. Bryant was the direct result of being bad, and free agent signings have been hit or miss. Given the same latitude, I think there are MANY general managers who could have done the same.





Still gotta draft Schwarber and Bryant, trade for Rizzo and Russell and Jake..you think Hendry gets that done? Hell, Ricketts fired Hendry and let him draft the next class.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:14 pm 
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312player wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
312player wrote:

Ricketts isn't a smart owner, Take Epstein away and he's fucked.


I don't disagree with the first part, but Epstein/Hoyer haven't proven themselves yet. They are currently reaping the benefits of a tank job, where the owner gave them the luxury (or the mandate) to be bad for five years. Bryant was the direct result of being bad, and free agent signings have been hit or miss. Given the same latitude, I think there are MANY general managers who could have done the same.





Still gotta draft Schwarber and Bryant, trade for Rizzo and Russell and Jake..you think Hendry gets that done? Hell, Ricketts fired Hendry and let him draft the next class.


Also Bryant wasn't a slam dunk. MANY want to draft Jon Grey at 2.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:29 pm 
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Man ... if Heyward started to produce this late in the year ... I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin' ...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:34 pm 
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Seems like Ross would be the kind of guy to wear some eye-black.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:52 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Crystal Lake Hoffy wrote:
Even Vin Scully can't mention Kris Bryant without mentioning Bryce Harper. Fuck this sport.


:roll:

ANYWAY.... Vin Scully is the best. Well done.


After this post, I'll always address you in the context of BigFan and see how that turns out for me.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:53 pm 
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I remember my Dad take my to Chester's Tavern to watch the '59 WS ..we didn't have a TV yet/ Brickhouse did Sox home games and Vince did the Dodgers.Vince made it easy for a kid to understand the game...there will never be another like him. Thank you

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:54 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Man ... if Heyward started to produce this late in the year ... I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin' ...


Don't worry, he'll just "figure it out" because no one works harder than he does.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:56 pm 
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Great pic, WWN. Love that old school stuff.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:09 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:52 pm 
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2 runs in 17 innings against a couple fucking bums.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:58 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
2 runs in 17 innings against a couple fucking bums.

Chicago teams tend to get a little 'tired' out in California for some reason.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:59 pm 
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If the Cubs have one personality trait in my 20 years of watching...it is they always get dominated by nobodies making spot starts.

Dude could be in his 4th major league appearance with a 8 ERA and he will make the Cubs look silly. Cubs call up guys like Erik Josich and he gets rocked.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:05 pm 
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Motherfucker....wtf Baez.. Go to 1st you dummy and again for the 33rd time I fuckin hate you Cahill.

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