This is something that only an insulated person who watches a lot of TV would laugh at. Do you think Jerry Orbach is going to rush out to solve the crime?

Name a society in the history of man who's first actions didn't include making laws and empowering people to enforce those laws.

Yes, I would expect if I was robbed that the police would attempt to solve the crime.

It feels like I'm in bizarro world here.

I've argued with friends about this since the 80s. I'm not sure exactly how it would work, but I definitely think it could. Do we really need a third party to solve our conflicts? Especially a third party as corrupt as the government. In a way, abolishing the police is an answer to Kaepernick, actually a step toward "ending America".

I just read this article in the Reader:

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/po ... d=23289710

I was unaware that there is an entire "abolish the police" movement, primarily led by queer black women. Of course that makes sense. The white guy on the northwest side can't imagine a world without police. In fact, he probably is the police. Additionally, when you are a capitalist hoarder you likely feel the need to protect all that you have hoarded from those who have less than you do.

The one statement that struck me the most in the article was this:

“People in Naperville are living abolition right now. The cops are not in their schools, they're not on every street corner.”

That may be partially true, but I don't believe it's actually abolition in action. People in Naperville have simply chosen to hoard their accumulated belongings far enough away from anyone who might be economically depressed enough to try to take them. I'm sure there is a plenty of police presence near the Aurora border.

The bottom line though is this: If we were starting a brand new society from scratch and setting everything up fresh, would we want police?

Actually, you're probably in Naperville.

A paid, standing police force is a relatively recent phenomenon.

This registered sex offender I regularly converse with on the internet just said something really stupid

Of course the most powerful guys make the laws and enforce them. That's how they control society.

http://gawker.com/ferguson-and-the-crim ... 1692392051

The police spend very little of their time dealing with violent criminals—indeed, police sociologists report that only about 10% of the average police officer’s time is devoted to criminal matters of any kind. Most of the remaining 90% is spent dealing with infractions of various administrative codes and regulations: all those rules about how and where one can eat, drink, smoke, sell, sit, walk, and drive. If two people punch each other, or even draw a knife on each other, police are unlikely to get involved. Drive down the street in a car without license plates, on the other hand, and the authorities will show up instantly, threatening all sorts of dire consequences if you don’t do exactly what they tell you.

The police, then, are essentially just bureaucrats with weapons. Their main role in society is to bring the threat of physical force—even, death—into situations where it would never have been otherwise invoked, such as the enforcement of civic ordinances about the sale of untaxed cigarettes.

I think I had commented about this in one of the early BLM threads. I saw a Chicago tonight type show on whatever CH. 20 PBS calls itself that included a police abolitionist in the discussion. If you aren't paying attention, there is definitely an anarchist wing to the movement which does lead me to my crazy "international worker's revolution" belief about BLM.

So you prefer armed outsiders "protecting" you as opposed to you and your neighbors creating the type of place where you want to live?

There is not a damned thing wrong with people who are bull shitters.

A gang of roving neighborhood toughs who keep the peace and chase outsiders away.

I like it.

Maybe we build things to separate the neighborhoods too.

A highway.

A viaduct.

Stuff like that.

A gang of roving neighborhood toughs who keep the peace and chase outsiders away.

What's next, no firemen? I mean how often do you really have a fire that you can't put out yourself? Firemen probably spend less than 5% of their time actually fighting a real fire. The rest of the time is spent on administrative stuff like building inspections.

A gang of roving neighborhood toughs who keep the peace and chase outsiders away.

I like it.

Maybe we build things to separate the neighborhoods too.

A highway.

A viaduct.

Stuff like that.

Of course the most powerful guys make the laws and enforce them. That's how they control society.

http://gawker.com/ferguson-and-the-crim ... 1692392051

The police spend very little of their time dealing with violent criminals—indeed, police sociologists report that only about 10% of the average police officer’s time is devoted to criminal matters of any kind. Most of the remaining 90% is spent dealing with infractions of various administrative codes and regulations: all those rules about how and where one can eat, drink, smoke, sell, sit, walk, and drive. If two people punch each other, or even draw a knife on each other, police are unlikely to get involved. Drive down the street in a car without license plates, on the other hand, and the authorities will show up instantly, threatening all sorts of dire consequences if you don’t do exactly what they tell you.

The police, then, are essentially just bureaucrats with weapons. Their main role in society is to bring the threat of physical force—even, death—into situations where it would never have been otherwise invoked, such as the enforcement of civic ordinances about the sale of untaxed cigarettes.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

Well, clearly BLM has gotten pretty far afield from its original focus. In fact, I don't believe BLM is an actual organization at all but rather just a loose collection of various groups sharing some common goals.

But I don't think demanding the end of a militarized police force patrolling the streets is a call for anarchy. In any case, it appears the time and conditions are ripe for a workers' rebellion.

Yes, I would expect if I was robbed that the police would attempt to solve the crime.

It feels like I'm in bizarro world here.

If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.

So JORR, if we had no police, do you feel crime would go down?

What's next, no firemen? I mean how often do you really have a fire that you can't put out yourself? Firemen probably spend less than 5% of their time actually fighting a real fire. The rest of the time is spent on administrative stuff like building inspections.

I don't and likely never will. I've seen a number of instances of burglary, auto theft, etc., and really never saw any instance of police investigation, effort, etc.. Talking to many of them, its usually fairly obvious why.

Imo American police have become more useless as they grown more distant from one of their early primary roles as slavecatchers

I smell a bit....

I don't and likely never will. I've seen a number of instances of burglary, auto theft, etc., and really never saw any instance of police investigation, effort, etc.. Talking to many of them, its usually fairly obvious why.

Imo American police have become more useless as they grown more distant from one of their early primary roles as slavecatchers

Probably. If for no other reason than the police themselves wouldn't be in a position to commit it. Would you suddenly become a criminal if there were no police?

A gang of roving neighborhood toughs who keep the peace and chase outsiders away.

I like it.

Maybe we build things to separate the neighborhoods too.

A highway.

A viaduct.

Stuff like that.

You tell me all the time that these types of controls are the only thing stopping the poor from taking everything that I own and yet crime would go down if I had no protection beyond my own ability to defend myself?

I don't know if I'd become a criminal but I would certainly break the law more than I do if there was literally no one to stop me.