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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:04 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
I wouldn't say people here want to clone for spare parts, but there are ethical issues that many here are unaware of. The amount of unused embryos that are known of is staggering. The federal government, which claims an unborn child has no right to life, is funding programs to adopt embryos. Think about that for a minute.
Classic Seacrest response here. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:06 pm 
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Seeds certainly aren't flowers, but you can buy them in a store nonetheless.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:07 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Well, I'm not gonna speak for Seacrest, but I will say that there are ethical issues when it comes to medical research that shouldn't simply be blown off by saying, "that's progress." I don't believe in God and I have no problem with in vitro fertilization. But it sounds like some people in this thread would have no problem keeping a clone around for spare parts for themselves. Just because man is capable of things doesn't necessarily mean he should do them.
Of course I agree that some things are immoral and I would be with Seacrest against them. He just needs to own the fact that by being against IVF and judging it as morally reprehensible to the point that it should be banned he is casting judgement on those who have gotten it. With your clone example, he would be judging those who got it also but I think he would be far more willing to accept it.

Though, I will say a major difference with your situation and IVF is that IVF has no victim and in fact actually helps create life that would not otherwise exist. I won't speak for Seacrest either but it would be interesting to here him actually state why he thinks leash should have been banned from attempting to have a child in this manner.


That is clearly how you and leash see the world and respond to it. It has two main issues though. It requires a judgement where was is not being made, and is usually followed up by personal insults and often a false ascription of where my thoughts come from.

If you truly think no one is hurt by IVF, then what about the science that has stated since early Greece that life begins at conception and the person who is being frozen or even discarded at times.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:09 pm 
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10 pages

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:09 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
I wouldn't say people here want to clone for spare parts, but there are ethical issues that many here are unaware of. The amount of unused embryos that are known of is staggering. The federal government, which claims an unborn child has no right to life, is funding programs to adopt embryos. Think about that for a minute.
Classic Seacrest response here. :lol:


Ditto.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:12 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Well, I'm not gonna speak for Seacrest, but I will say that there are ethical issues when it comes to medical research that shouldn't simply be blown off by saying, "that's progress." I don't believe in God and I have no problem with in vitro fertilization. But it sounds like some people in this thread would have no problem keeping a clone around for spare parts for themselves. Just because man is capable of things doesn't necessarily mean he should do them.
Of course I agree that some things are immoral and I would be with Seacrest against them. He just needs to own the fact that by being against IVF and judging it as morally reprehensible to the point that it should be banned he is casting judgement on those who have gotten it. With your clone example, he would be judging those who got it also but I think he would be far more willing to accept it.

Though, I will say a major difference with your situation and IVF is that IVF has no victim and in fact actually helps create life that would not otherwise exist. I won't speak for Seacrest either but it would be interesting to here him actually state why he thinks leash should have been banned from attempting to have a child in this manner.


That is clearly how you and leash see the world and respond to it. It has two main issues though. It requires a judgement where was is not being made, and is usually followed up by personal insults and often a false ascription of where my thoughts come from.

If you truly think no one is hurt by IVF, then what about the science that has stated since early Greece that life begins at conception and the person who is being frozen or even discarded at times.


So, let's take me personally out of this.

Please answer this question: do you think that individuals conceived via IVF were created immorally?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:15 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:17 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
That is clearly how you and leash see the world and respond to it. It has two main issues though. It requires a judgement where was is not being made, and is usually followed up by personal insults and often a false ascription of where my thoughts come from.
So you have no problem if anyone gets IVF? Why should it be banned?

Seacrest wrote:
If you truly think no one is hurt by IVF, then what about the science that has stated since early Greece that life begins at conception and the person who is being frozen or even discarded at times.
Pardon me if I misstate what you are actually saying as I am not totally sure what this question is getting at but with IVF the conception happens and then the embryo is given the same chance to survive that you or me were when we were in that stage. So, assuming the early Greeks, with their advanced knowledge of science without even basic scientific equipment actually lucked into the correct answer, who is the person that is being frozen or discarded?

Now, I assume your answer is that it is possible that some embryos will not be implanted if the first round is successful, but the answer to that, if you really think it is an issue, seems to be much different than "ban IVF".

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:17 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
20 pages


Not if Seacrest continues to avoid answering direct questions.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:18 pm 
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Chus wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
20 pages


Not if Seacrest continues to avoid answering direct questions.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:22 pm 
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I'm seeing a lot of people using :lol: in this thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:23 pm 
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What a thread!

Looks like I need to hit the books and do some research before jumping in.

Toodles!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of people using :lol: in this thread.


Sorry... won't infringe on your trademark. :cry:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Also, if we do follow the ancient Greeks, who clearly should be trusted about this as our knowledge of things was pretty much perfect back then, and conception is when life starts, then IVF is awesome. Every single implant is a life that would not have otherwise existed which is then given a chance to live.

I don't know about you, but if I was given a choice between either not existing, or existing I know which one I would choose!

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:26 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Creating human life in a lab is not acceptable for a multitude of reasons.


I answered this question on the first page. You can re-read it above.

Having reiterated that, once life has been created anywhere, it has dignity and should be loved and respected.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:28 pm 
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Chus wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
20 pages


Not if Seacrest continues to avoid answering direct questions.


Where have I avoided a direct question here chus?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:28 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
What a thread!

Looks like I need to hit the books and do some research before jumping in.

Toodles!



OR,, you could just answer ignorently without knowing anything like you usually do???


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:29 pm 
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This is the first time I've seen the ancient Greeks referenced in regards to a medical debate.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:30 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
This is the first time I've seen the ancient Greeks referenced in regards to a medical debate.


Yeah, the Hippocratic oath has been a thing for a few thousand years now.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:32 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
This is the first time I've seen the ancient Greeks referenced in regards to a medical debate.


Yeah, the Hippocratic oath has been a thing for a few thousand years now.

Learn something new every day!!! Now I've seen the Greeks referenced 2 times in regards to medical discussion.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Chus wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
20 pages


Not if Seacrest continues to avoid answering direct questions.


Where have I avoided a direct question here chus?


:lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Creating human life in a lab is not acceptable for a multitude of reasons.


I answered this question on the first page. You can re-read it above.

Having reiterated that, once life has been created anywhere, it has dignity and should be loved and respected.
What do you think of people who choose to get IVF?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:39 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Creating human life in a lab is not acceptable for a multitude of reasons.



What's the multitude of reasons?

I don't want the gov buying and selling anything especially embryos. I sort of understand your point about it being the start of life but I don't agree. I do think stem cell research is an avenue to be explored. I don't know how you can look at so many sick people that it has the chance of helping and say no. Their life matters too.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:48 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of people using :lol: in this thread.


Sorry... won't infringe on your trademark. :cry:


lol

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:00 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
If you truly think no one is hurt by IVF, then what about the science that has stated since early Greece that life begins at conception and the person who is being frozen or even discarded at times.


Less than 70% of all naturally fertilized eggs implant. As a result, those 70% die. Why is God such a jerk?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:07 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of people using :lol: in this thread.


Sorry... won't infringe on your trademark. :cry:


lol



Is Hank being mistaken for Hatchetman? :lol: :lol:

That is pretty fun.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:14 pm 
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I have no issues with clones. If I needed a spare part it would be great to not have to wait for someone to crash to get it.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:14 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Why is God such a jerk?


A billion pages.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:16 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I have no issues with clones. If I needed a spare part it would be great to not have to wait for someone to crash to get it.


Image

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:17 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I have no issues with clones. If I needed a spare part it would be great to not have to wait for someone to crash to get it.
Well, we won't really need to have clones. We are a few decades or less from being able to grow our spare parts and have them stored like frozen ground beef in our freezer.

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