Chas I'm guessing this is probably a battle that you want to steer clear of. Just a helpful suggestion.

In NC I do think it's racism. The more those people talk the closer they get to flat out admitting it.

Darko I would say most people issues with redistricting stems from the fact that only the true party line people are the ones who are vocal, and they only do it when it's their guys getting the short end. You would never hear IL Dems chirping about needing redistricting here, but we hear about it all the time from local pols about the national map. Boehner was here for a fundraiser when he was Speaker chirping about it, yet when it comes to TX which is just as bad if not worse in how blatantly their lines are drawn, crickets. If everybody would sit down and agree that; yes this is an issue, yes it needs to be fixed, and yes it needs to be fixed from the Fedral level on down, then we're getting some where. Until then it's just a bunch of whining for the sake of whining.

you open up a few can of worms with this one: you're essentially making voting "pay to play" because expecting people to come up with the $5-15 for some form of state ID = discriminating against the "fiscally challenged." then you're also hearkening hundreds years of horrible racism by "carding" people.... i mean, how come that middle aged white guy didn't get carded but i did? is it because i'm balck? do you assume i'm not a proper citizen of america just because i'm latino? furthermore are you only insisting on carding latinos because they're not going to vote for trump? why do you want to swing the election in favor of trump anyways, huh? #InstitutionalRacism!

buying alcoho/cigarettes/prescriptions/etc (things you need ID for) = technically a LUXURY in today's america; voting = unalienable right; therefore, you better not go around hatemongering in the form of "how do we know you are who you say you are?" and just let all these people vote for hillary! you might not like a post-hillary world but at least the world will still be there unlike, say, electing a racist horseman of the apocalypse who isn't qualified for the job because he hasn't paid his fealty to the system in the form of ~20+ years of public service!

/me wonders if he randomly went to 3-4 different polling locations with no forms of ID if he'd be able to vote for hillary 3-4 times?

or how much would i need to know about 2-3 other "registered voters" to show up at places sans ID claiming to be them so i could vote another 2-3 times? you figure that has to be possible, right?

_________________

I get carded every time I vote. They actually scan it like they do at some bars.

_________________

I get carded too. I'm confident it's because I ask for the Republican ballot.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

My comment is completely outside of the voter argument. I would like one serious answer however. You cannot drive you cannot fly you cannot cash a check and you cannot do most anything without an ID. You cannot leave the country and hope to return without a passport. These are just facts.

So outside of voting. Can someone please tell me it is wrong for a citizen to have a government approved ID?

Again without mentioning voting and racism let's hear sound arguments.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

No one said it was wrong.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

It's weird. I went today to get a new deer rifle for me and another for my underage son. We went through the whole proces and so on. Then we came to the end of it and they said we cannot take them home. I said why? They said because your teenage son doesn't have a drivers license and you forgot yours at home. I said what the fuck are you talking about? It is my second amendment right!

They said there can be restrictions on rights within reason.

I said oh ok. I will go home and get my license. I did not call the ACLU.

See rights can be regulated until all the dopes think they can't. Like all you crybabies in this thread.

In on of the many threads on this before this one I posed a simple question. If I could magically provide from the mystery of the spaghetti god a ID for every citizen in the USA what would be the excuse not to require one? Of course it's racism and blah blah blah. Bullshit

_________________
Elections have consequences.

Again where the govt does not place an undue burden on individuals to exercise their Constitutional rights you won't hear a reasonable peep. But in many parts of the South these restrictions were aimed directly at elderly Black voters, especially women(consistent voters) who have amazing burdens placed in front of them if they need ID for the first time in decades/life, especially if they live under their married names(despite the length of time).

For another example, if I were a rural dweller in the old "Dixie" & lost the one birth certificate I have, I'd have to obtain another from Jackson Co Missouri, and then because its incomplete by law, I'd also likely have to get a certified copy on my adoption papers, and then possibly have to drive 200+ miles to the remaining state office open part time AND THEN be at the mercy of an overzealous clerk like the sanctity of religious(marriage) KY county clerk. Or the former Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court.

Its an extreme example to many, but there are hundreds and thousands of equally frustrating cases in the south, all to cynically restrict democratic voting to preserve an unconstitutional way of thinking in the deep south.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I used to work at DMV in Indiana. The old southern birth certificates were nuts, hand written and barely legible. Names misspelled, wrong dates... And we have to use whats on the BC. So some 64yr old lady named Hattie, now has Hatty on her on DL which doesnt match any of her other info. It was always a huge mess.

_________________

Do white people in the middle of Appalachia or Arkansas ever lose their docs?

_________________
Elections have consequences.

And consider that my own late, Alabama born grandparents were born at home in the period where midwives often did all the deliveries, and to my knowledge neither actually had birth certificates.

Not that my grandfather could vote in Alabama anyway due to his conviction for bootlegging in 1934.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

And again Regular Reader et al.... hypothetically if the government could give free of charge a proper citizen a ID or passport it good right? I mean if they took say a four year election cycle to identify and free of charge give every citizen as well as all new ones a ID/passport a voter ID law would work right? If not why?

_________________
Elections have consequences.

Of course, and they shouldnt have to deal with this stupidity either.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I have tried very hard to go out of my way to be hypothetical in this discussion in order to come to reason. No one wants to offer solutions. You can come up with any method that suits you but I only desire one thing. One person one vote.

All I hear against is racism and I can't get an ID. I apologize but I thinks it's bullshit. Maybe politicians are working something but not regular people. Regular people want one person one vote.

Everyone is a goddamm number if only if it's SSN. We all have numbers. Just fucking vote once and get a passport free
Of charge.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

How about not creating solutions to problems that don't exist? How about encouraging people to vote and not trying to restrict voting?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You are hung up on the IDs. They have been closing polling places in predominantly black areas, making it harder those people to acquire IDs. Restricting things like early voting and Sunday voting also affects poor, black people disproportionately.

You can deny racism all you want, but that is being willfully ignorant. A federal appeals court struck down the laws in NC because "they targeted African Americans with almost surgical precision". I don't even see how you can argue against it, at this point.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

This is your answer. The point is not obtaining the paper. It is what is being done to make it virtually impossible for folks with limited means to vote. Your Appalachia question does not apply here in that as Chus alludes to no one is willfully making it difficult for them to vote, and if they do, that too is a serious issue.

Did you wear clear heels when you worked the polls, Hank?

_________________

Acording to the Constitution there is no such thing as early or Sunday voting. Those points are moot.

_________________
When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Sit this one out, Chas.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

We just need to be able to vote on smartphones and smartphones alone.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What about my Obama phone?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Cancelled. He's out. Pick up a Trump phone in January.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Excellent advice.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

https://thinkprogress.org/north-carolin ... .gcyh6y6vd

4 hour waits. Yay democracy!

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

I can't imagine having to wait 4 hours to vote.

_________________

Good thing you don't live in a liberal county in a swing state.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way