Is there any doubt that Clinton's campaign and its friends in the media got hold of that tape and made sure it got out? And that's fine, but it's just more disingenuous bullshit when Clinton then acts as if she has some kind of high ground.

I'm not making an excuse for Trump- you can't say shit like that if you're gonna run for office- but locker room talk it is, and MANY CFMB members have said far worse just in the DiCaro thread.

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Freedom is our Strength.

Hillary Clinton is a serious politician that is capable of discussing the nuances of policy. She has some flaws which really don't make her all that unique when it comes to politics. Trump is a damn clown. He is only concerned about the damn sideshow.

I don't blame Trump because he can only be what he is. I blame Republican voters. They had 17 people to choose from and they chose him.

They didn't want the "establishment" guys too Washingtony. OK now we have this bumbling idiot. He ran a campaign that was based on a "cult of personality" and the Clintons have willingly obliged him.

The notion that anyone except Trump would be beating her is a myth too. That's the new spin job. Trump thoroughly disposed of the Republican field. As he did it there was a movement touting his viability and marveling at his ability to win. Anyone that pointed out his incompetency was reminded about how his wins. He was the guy that repeatedly proved his critics wrong. Nothing stuck to him or so the theory went.

He is the same train wreck that he has always been and what this campaign has highlighted is his none too great business acumen too. He is merely a dude that was born with advantages who knows how too game the system. Nothing great about him at all.

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And I wouldn't vote for them for anything, either. If I were undecided, what other than vagaries does this guy bring to the table to counterbalance this idiocy?

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I don't remember half the time if I'm hiding or I'm lost

I'm guessing his voter doesn't give a shit about that stuff. They're just angry with the status quo.

Personally, I don't see how anyone could vote for him. But I can't really see how anyone could vote for her either except for the fact that he is her opponent.

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Freedom is our Strength.

This seems to be the most common opinion I hear. Very good summary about the entire 2016 Election.

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

The whole thing is embarrassing but not really surprising. And the Trump people absolutely love it. I'm not even sure how much they like him, I think it's more the fact that he will go after Hillary.

She has many more useful traits than he does. She's competent, for starters. And, even if done for political purposes, she has accomplished at least a few good things in her career. You have a hatred for her that is deep... deeper than mine, but don't let it skew your view. "Faking" civility and pretending to care about people (as Hillary does) is still far better than what he does. She's a terrible candidate, and the Dems shouldn't have nominated her, but I think your hatred for her is causing you to understate how awful Trump really is.

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And when one of us wins a presidential nomination we'll be in a world of shit.

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This is a pathetic showing for one of the most powerful countries in the modernized world. Pathetic doesn't even begin to describe this shit show. That said, it's so stupid, it's funny.

The sad part is that, while I think it's more than high time for a female to take a shot at leading this country, the one presented to us is just so awful. Her best qualifier is that she's better than Donald Trump.

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Well, you go back farther than I do, but I can't recall any modern election that was even close. They have been dirty, but out in the open like this? We literally had one candidate bringing in rape victims of the other candidates' husband to a debate... that is deplorable on both sides. What election are you saying was worse and what were the specific things that were worse? I disagree with what seems to be one of your premises - that we should excuse acting "non-presidential" because that's how real people talk. I would prefer that my president be at least a decent person... but if they're not, I would prefer that they at least fake it in front of the entire world. If it's just an act, so be it. Everyone's watching. This isn't the WWF.

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Speak for yourself. I'd be great.

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Oh come on shes not awful. Shes a product of the system but not a bad person and she will be a decent president. Everyone is so blinded by her shit personality they dont look at her work. She deserves to be in charge.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Again, I've stepped away from this because I don't want it to seem like I support Trump in any way, but I'm not sure what "she's competent" means. Competent at what exactly? Making a bunch of money while spending her entire life in "public service"?

It seems like civility is very important to you in the political sphere. I don't value it nearly as much.

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Freedom is our Strength.

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This is an observation not an attack, endorsement or stance on either candidate...

20+ years ago there were a handful of conservatives on one network calling the Clintons "liars, untruthful and deceptive". The Clintons unleashed their team to discredit and destroy those people. Even Bill's direct opponents would not mutter the word "liar" while publicly speaking.

Now, Trump is on nationally televised debates carried on probably a dozen networks wagging his finger in Hillary's face publicly shaming her and calling her and her husband liars.

To Peoria Matt's point - Trump is taking her on and it clearly appears that the gloves are off. It seems that nobody has ever done that to the Clintons without major retaliation.

Again, an observation only. I remember the 1992 & 1996 elections very clearly.

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Between her and Trump? Yea, she's the least shittier choice.

But no way in hell does she "deserve" it.

Civility? Is that what we're calling NOT mocking handicapped people, implying that a debate moderator was on her period, threatening to sue all media outlets who disagree with you, encouraging foreign countries to hack the U.S., threatening to jail your opponent, and bringing alleged rape victims to a debate? I would call it acting like a somewhat well-adjusted human being, but yeah, "civility"...

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And this is why he might win. People who are on the fence, might see him as not a politician and vote for him.

Oh come on shes not awful. Shes a product of the system but not a bad person and she will be a decent president. Everyone is so blinded by her shit personality they dont look at her work. She deserves to be in charge.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

And, yes, she is "competent" in that she is at least somewhat intellectually curious. It's hilarious to me that Gary Johnson has been cast as some sort of ignorant moron when I can pretty much guarantee that Donald Trump would struggle with the same questions. He is not the least bit educated on any type of policy or any geopolitics. His answer last night to not allowing insurance companies to discriminate based on pre-existing conditions was to open up insurance markets across state lines.

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Good point. I do worry about the safety of the Donald's children after this process is over. Maybe worry isn't the right word. I'll say I won't be surprised if the dirty tricks don't end when the election process is completed.

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People have said some ridiculous shit in that thread...nobody has admitted actually doing those things to real women.

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Please be trolling.

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Trump is nowhere near her league. Youre comparing hitler to churchill.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

If one of us wins a presidential nomination, something will have already gone horribly wrong.

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I'm glad Kenneth Bone found his Red Swingline Stapler.

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

Oh please. For decades, nobody has hesitated to badmouth the Clintons in an attempt to discredit them.

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President Badrogue will have to do some serious damage control.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

If you are undecided and can't bring yourself to vote for either of these candidates because of some Hangman's Dilemma, then just don't vote for president.

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I don't remember half the time if I'm hiding or I'm lost