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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:50 am 
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Who deserves the most blame for this collapse?

Theo: The guy who bought the groceries
Maddon: Or the guy who takes the groceries and encourages them to get hammered instead of preparing for games


I blame Theo. DJ LeMaheiu this season against the Doyers batted .323/.384/.492. That would look really nice in the lineup right now. Instead he was traded for Ian Stewart.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:54 am 
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How about the middle of the order that isn't hitting? Why is the manager always to blame?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:55 am 
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I don't know but I was just told on the radio that batting practice was only voluntary before the game yesterday. That is in keeping with the regular season routine but to me seems to be a mistake.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:55 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How about the middle of the order that isn't hitting? Why is the manager always to blame?

He didn't pinch hit for Heyward in G2 with runners on base and Kershaw on the ropes.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:57 am 
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At this point...the players. Maddon has made some changes to attempt to help. These players havent learned to not let the pressure exceed the pleasure.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:58 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How about the middle of the order that isn't hitting? Why is the manager always to blame?

He didn't pinch hit for Heyward in G2 with runners on base and Kershaw on the ropes.



Do you think he's suddenly managing differently than he has the rest of his career that got you so excited when they bounced Ricky "Raw Deal' Renteria to bring him in?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:59 am 
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Bring in Ricky Raw Deal. Whatever.

Just win


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:01 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Just win

:salut:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:05 am 
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http://www.johnfmurray.com/sport/baseba ... sychology/

Peoria Journal Star – Kirk Wessler – Oct 9, 2008 – Honesty being the first and most important step toward recovery, let’s start here:

The Cubs choked.

That’s not to say a left-handed power bat wouldn’t make the Cubs better. But really, how much better than 97 wins do they need to be? The Cubs have good bats. Good fielders. Good pitchers. Good manager. They had a terrific regular season.

Then came October, which has not been a good month for the Cubs since 1908.

Now, it’s possible, perhaps even probable, the Dodgers would have won the Division Series even if the Cubs were playing their best ball.

But the Cubs never gave themselves a chance. When it came time to step onto the playoff stage, the Cubs turned into Paris Hilton trying to play Lady Macbeth.

Ryan Dempster, a 17-win pitcher with a 2.96 ERA who walked seven rival batters the entire month of September, walked seven Dodgers in less than five innings of Game 1. Every Cubs infielder committed an error in Game 2. Aramis Ramirez, a career .284 hitter who consistently ranks among the National League’s top 10 in RBIs, is batting .061 with zero RBIs in his last six playoff games. Derrek Lee batted .714 with the bases empty in this series, but only .250 (a single, two strikeouts and a double play) with men on base and matched Ramirez’s RBI output.

Of course, you know all this and more. What you don’t know is why.

Why do good players choke? Why do good teams choke? Why did these good players on this good team gag the day the calendar turned to October?

I have a theory.

The Cubs could not separate themselves from the expectations of their fans. Cubs fans, the majority of whom had not been born the last time the team even played in the World Series, are unfailingly loyal – and desperate. These Cubs knew that by successfully defending the National League Central Division title as predicted, by posting the franchise’s most successful regular season since 1945, they were expected to reach the World Series for the first time in 63 years and win it for the first time in 100. So they carried their fans’ expectations into October, along with the desperation.

And they failed in spectacular fashion.

“Nobody can do well with a gun to their head,” sports psychologist John Murray says.

Murray, based in Palm Beach, Fla., has gained national recognition in recent years for his Mental Performance Index which measures how well football teams execute under pressure. Baseball isn’t football, but pressure is pressure, and the ability to manage pressure and continue to perform at peak efficiency is integral to winning.

“If what you say is true” about the Cubs wilting under the expectations of their fans, “it’s similar to a child trying to meet the parent’s expectations, rather than playing for himself,” Murray says. “When you do that, you rob yourself of the pleasure of the pursuit.”

Athletes who focus on the end result, rather than the process, are virtually doomed to fail, Murray says. Games and championships are not won in a grand instant. Winning is accomplished moment by moment, pitch by pitch, at-bat by at-bat, inning by inning, game by game.

“If you think about winning, you’ve already lost,” Murray says. “You have to get back to the moment.”

What’s required on the North Side of Chicago is a culture change.

Dusty Baker tried to do that in his tenure as manager of the Cubs. He got off to a good start; got the Cubs to the 2003 playoffs and five outs away from an NL pennant and a spot in the World Series before everything unraveled. The club never recovered and Baker got fired.

Lou Piniella has done a better job than Baker. This year, for the first time in a century, the Cubs won a title – the NL Central – for the second season in a row. Try as he might, though, Piniella can’t perform lobotomies on the players, who already know the history of franchise failure. Nor can he wave his hand and make his team blot out the urgent pleas of the fans to reach the Promised Land just once in their lifetimes.

“When you live in a fishbowl,” Murray says, “you try too hard, think too much, and your energy level is too high. If you’re too jacked up, you’re not going to do well.”

So how does this problem get fixed? Find a charismatic player with a “screw everything else and just play, baby” attitude? Develop one from within? Lock the gates to Wrigley Field and keep all the fans at home?

“You fix it by winning,” Murray says.

He points to the Boston Red Sox, who never could get past the New York Yankees in a close division race or playoff series. Then, down 3-0 in their best-of-7 American League Championship Series with the Yanks in 2004, the BoSox suddenly cut loose, rallied and started to win. They’ve claimed two of the last four World Series titles after nearly 90 years of previous futility.

“The Cubs are not doomed forever,” Murray says. “At some point, the Cubs are going to win. Even 100 years, from a statistical standpoint, is not that big a deal.”

A century isn’t a big deal?

There are 30 teams, Murray points out. That means, statistically, each team has one chance in 30 of winning the World Series in a given year. So the Cubs are only three titles shy of where they ought to be.

“I can almost guarantee you,” Murray says, “that in the next 50 years the Cubs are going to win one.”

That should come as encouraging news to fans who’ve already been waiting 100 years.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:09 am 
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If the Cubs lose you seriously have to question why Schwarber was not used to try and win this year.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:19 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How about the middle of the order that isn't hitting? Why is the manager always to blame?

Maybe his hands were tied, but the more I dwell on Montero being Jake's personal catcher last night the more upset I become. And yes I know it's been that way for the past month or so, but it really reared it's ugly head last night.

Let's go back to 3rd inning, which turned out to be our best scoring opportunity. Maybe if Willson is in the lineup he's batting seventh and Russell is dropped to 8th. If that were the case, Willson is up there with only one out and in a situation where we only need some contact to scratch a run home. Instead, Russell whiffs and then Montero grounds out to end the inning. Hill is a tough matchup against lefties so why hamstring our offense when we didn't have to?

And then on the defensive end, the combination of Jake's lack of being able to hold runners on compounded with Montero's non existent arm led to Grandal's 2 run homer. Now Reddick reaches on a deflected infield hit. That happens so you can't get too upset about it, but, you can be angry about what we all saw coming. Reddick was stealing second and there was nothing we could do about it. Of course there's always the possibility that he swipes that bag even with Contreras out there but I gotta believe his lead at first isn't as big and maybe that's the difference in being out or safe.

As the inning continued, Reddick's on third with two out and two strikes on Grandal and now because of this, Jake's unwilling to throw that slider in the dirt because Montero just can't block pitches the way he used to. And then BAM, that one run lead is now three yet it feels like five. The game was over right then and there.

It's tough enough to win a game, let alone one in which you're at a disadvantage right out of the gate. Bottom line, Montero should never have been behind the plate last night and this year's Jake Arrieta doesn't and shouldn't have the cache to demand that he is.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:19 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If the Cubs lose you seriously have to question why Schwarber was not used to try and win this year.

Not really.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:24 am 
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IMU wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If the Cubs lose you seriously have to question why Schwarber was not used to try and win this year.

Not really.
Why not? I believe you think Schwarber should or will be traded.

Why not do it this year and make your team as good as possible this year?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:27 am 
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FOCUS! The Cubs one 103 games because they are good. Only three more wins to the WORLD SERIES!!! There is too much negativity and blaming. Today's escape goat is tomorrow's hero. I'm looking at you Anthony Rizzo??


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:29 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
IMU wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If the Cubs lose you seriously have to question why Schwarber was not used to try and win this year.

Not really.
Why not? I believe you think Schwarber should or will be traded.

Why not do it this year and make your team as good as possible this year?

I mistook your intention with the word 'used.'

Still...it is difficult to trade a player with a significant injury. Once that happened, you may want to re-establish his value. I'm not sure if GM's around the league were using the injury to drive down his 'value.'

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:30 am 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How about the middle of the order that isn't hitting? Why is the manager always to blame?

Maybe his hands were tied, but the more I dwell on Montero being Jake's personal catcher last night the more upset I become. And yes I know it's been that way for the past month or so, but it really reared it's ugly head last night.

Let's go back to 3rd inning, which turned out to be our best scoring opportunity. Maybe if Willson is in the lineup he's batting seventh and Russell is dropped to 8th. If that were the case, Willson is up there with only one out and in a situation where we only need some contact to scratch a run home. Instead, Russell whiffs and then Montero grounds out to end the inning. Hill is a tough matchup against lefties so why hamstring our offense when we didn't have to?

And then on the defensive end, the combination of Jake's lack of being able to hold runners on compounded with Montero's non existent arm led to Grandal's 2 run homer. Now Reddick reaches on a deflected infield hit. That happens so you can't get too upset about it, but, you can be angry about what we all saw coming. Reddick was stealing second and there was nothing we could do about it. Of course there's always the possibility that he swipes that bag even with Contreras out there but I gotta believe his lead at first isn't as big and maybe that's the difference in being out or safe.

As the inning continued, Reddick's on third with two out and two strikes on Grandal and now because of this, Jake's unwilling to throw that slider in the dirt because Montero just can't block pitches the way he used to. And then BAM, that one run lead is now three yet it feels like five. The game was over right then and there.

It's tough enough to win a game, let alone one in which you're at a disadvantage right out of the gate. Bottom line, Montero should never have been behind the plate last night and this year's Jake Arrieta doesn't and shouldn't have the cache to demand that he is.


It's going to be very interesting to see it Lackey gets Ross tonight. I think he does.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:35 am 
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I need Contreras out there.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:36 am 
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Matches Malone wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
How about the middle of the order that isn't hitting? Why is the manager always to blame?

Maybe his hands were tied, but the more I dwell on Montero being Jake's personal catcher last night the more upset I become. And yes I know it's been that way for the past month or so, but it really reared it's ugly head last night.

Let's go back to 3rd inning, which turned out to be our best scoring opportunity. Maybe if Willson is in the lineup he's batting seventh and Russell is dropped to 8th. If that were the case, Willson is up there with only one out and in a situation where we only need some contact to scratch a run home. Instead, Russell whiffs and then Montero grounds out to end the inning. Hill is a tough matchup against lefties so why hamstring our offense when we didn't have to?

And then on the defensive end, the combination of Jake's lack of being able to hold runners on compounded with Montero's non existent arm led to Grandal's 2 run homer. Now Reddick reaches on a deflected infield hit. That happens so you can't get too upset about it, but, you can be angry about what we all saw coming. Reddick was stealing second and there was nothing we could do about it. Of course there's always the possibility that he swipes that bag even with Contreras out there but I gotta believe his lead at first isn't as big and maybe that's the difference in being out or safe.

As the inning continued, Reddick's on third with two out and two strikes on Grandal and now because of this, Jake's unwilling to throw that slider in the dirt because Montero just can't block pitches the way he used to. And then BAM, that one run lead is now three yet it feels like five. The game was over right then and there.

It's tough enough to win a game, let alone one in which you're at a disadvantage right out of the gate. Bottom line, Montero should never have been behind the plate last night and this year's Jake Arrieta doesn't and shouldn't have the cache to demand that he is.

At some point these pitchers have to man up and find a way to pitch without their personal fucking caddies . If Lester falls apart next year because Ross isn't catching him how fucking mentally tough can these guys be and then be expected to win playoff games . Having Montero certainly didn't help Arrieta at all last night for sure .

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:38 am 
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IMU wrote:
I need Contreras out there.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:50 am 
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IMU wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
IMU wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If the Cubs lose you seriously have to question why Schwarber was not used to try and win this year.

Not really.
Why not? I believe you think Schwarber should or will be traded.

Why not do it this year and make your team as good as possible this year?

I mistook your intention with the word 'used.'

Still...it is difficult to trade a player with a significant injury. Once that happened, you may want to re-establish his value. I'm not sure if GM's around the league were using the injury to drive down his 'value.'
If the team wanted to play him in the field they may be worried. I think a team looking at him as a DH would have given you pretty good value.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:51 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
At some point these pitchers have to man up and find a way to pitch without their personal fucking caddies . If Lester falls apart next year because Ross isn't catching him how fucking mentally tough can these guys be and then be expected to win playoff games . Having Montero certainly didn't help Arrieta at all last night for sure .


This.

And time for the Gunslinger Lackey to show up. Because he didn't come here for a haircut, he came here for jewlery.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:53 am 
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Don't worry. Joe will have the players dress as superheros on the plane ride back. And he will surprise them with a mime. First day back at Wrigley, he will have pony rides.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:06 am 
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I'm not a fan of the personal catchers, but come on... this is Maddon's fault? It doesn't matter what lineup he puts out there right now... there isn't a single one of them who are doing anything. Even the inning we threatened last night, it was only because of two walks. This isn't Maddon's fault.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:08 am 
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jimmypasta wrote:
http://www.johnfmurray.com/sport/baseball/cubs-choking-sports-psychology/

Peoria Journal Star – Kirk Wessler – Oct 9, 2008 – Honesty being the first and most important step toward recovery, let’s start here:

The Cubs choked.

Derrek Lee batted .714 with the bases empty in this series, but only .250 with men on base.



Lol, if he's calling Lee's performance a choke, what would he call this year's disaster?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:16 am 
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lol

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
At some point these pitchers have to man up and find a way to pitch without their personal fucking caddies . If Lester falls apart next year because Ross isn't catching him how fucking mentally tough can these guys be and then be expected to win playoff games . Having Montero certainly didn't help Arrieta at all last night for sure .


This.

And time for the Gunslinger Lackey to show up. Because he didn't come here for a haircut, he came here for jewlery.

#Truth

And :lol: :lol: at "escape goat"

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:00 am 
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There hasn't been any "collapse". They just lost a couple games. Lots of teams lose to Kershaw. The big blue train is still on the tracks.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:01 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Who deserves the most blame for this collapse?

Theo: The guy who bought the groceries
Maddon: Or the guy who takes the groceries and encourages them to get hammered instead of preparing for games


I blame Theo. DJ LeMaheiu this season against the Doyers batted .323/.384/.492. That would look really nice in the lineup right now. Instead he was traded for Ian Stewart.

:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:09 am 
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Cubs fans owe Kirkwood a HUGE thank you for lighting a fire under Theo and Maddon's ass.


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