Who says some don't feel that way? Reality is JORR's opinion of Hillary has never been objective. Some of his issues with her are definitely valid but his over the top hate for her makes it easy to disregard most of his thoughts about her.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

My comments and most of this thread are not really about the board but the situation the electorate is in general.

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Elections have consequences.

I want to say that its pointless and it doesn't matter but Obamacare gave an excuse to employers to jack up the insurance costs and offer worse service. I pay far more now for the same level of service. I suppose that things matter much more on the legislators we elect rather than president. Until we have term limits, we are stuck with the same group of idiots from presidency to presidency.

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He isn't really a Republican candidate at all. That is why I made the argument regarding xenophobia and racism earlier during the election. His promotion of racist, as well as xenophobic ideas is what initially endeared him to Republican voters. The purist within Republican circles immediately embraced him once he took the lead on the Birther movement. He doubled and triple down by targeting Mexicans and Muslims. Once this occurred his Republican bona fides were cemented.

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Hillary is more conservative than Trump.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

We probably won't ever agree on this, as I view the public discourse generated by leaders to be more important than you do. But I do want to clarify that I'm not saying Armageddon is going to occur when Donald Trump stomps his feet and throws a fit like a child upon his loss. What I'm saying is that it is yet another example (in a long line of them) of Trump encouraging his psychopath militant base to believe more preposterous things. That is bad for our country... I mean, it's hard to imagine a choice for president as bad as this one, but I don't expect any change as long as people are so easily manipulated by morons like him. And, let's be clear, he's a moron. He's not a political savant. He's not intelligent. He's not nuanced. He is 100% a pathetic, thin-skinned, narcissistic, petulant baby who has no idea the ramifications of what he says. I don't believe any of his comments are calculated, and I don't think he knows one goddamned thing about what is important to maintain a Democratic Republic (trust in the system is a huge component).

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Again I am only referencing this one post of his as if we didn't know who wrote it. And the reason why I did is because he certainly is not right wing it is a reasonable opinion to be discussed. If someone else made it on the board or in the general landscape it might be viewed differently.

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Elections have consequences.

Not true. Any criticism of Hillary- and there's a whole lot to criticize- is taken as support of Trump by MANY.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Obamacare is the reason we need single payer. If they thought the insurance companies were going to lose one penny of profit and not use the ACA as an excuse to jack rates for even more profit they were naive.

A public option "maybe" but we should never ever have a single payer system.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Wrong. Jorr is one of the more objective Hillary posters on this website. She is close to being a historically bad candidate, who inexplicably got lucky enough to go up against an even worse one.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Correct. That is why I said way back when this is a disaster. They could have and maybe should have simply cut checks for everyone uninsured to Blue Cross. It would have been cheaper and a whole lot less trouble than what we have gone through now. So if the country is going to agree on insurance is a right then it must go all the way. The half measure was never going to hold up.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

Term limits aren't going to help. We'll just end up electing a new bunch of selfish, ignorant leaders. That's what our system produces.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You realize Obamacare eliminated the caps on lifetime coverage? All employer plans had a maximum payout limit before ($2M in many cases). So if you have a person in your plan with a chronic disease, there is no limit to how much your company would have to pay out. Most employer plans are self insured. Everyone thinks that United Health, etc al is insuring you, but that is not the case. Most are ASO plans where your employer picks up your medical bills and the insurance company services the claims and provides network access.

Imagine if State Farm was required to offer unlimited liability coverage when you get an accident. You drive home drunk from a ballgame and kill a family. State Farm has unlimited exposure instead of a $1M limit.

My point- you have to charge for those risks. It changes the whole game.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

There is a lot to criticize and dislike about her. Most of the talk about Hillary mixes in valid issue with a bunch of crap. IMO the crap isn't needed.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You've been clear and even handed. They are both unlikable for MANY reasons.

If we'll all being sincere, most would admit that neither is worthy of our vote.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

To be honest I never thought you were a Trump guy. I know you touted the greatness of Lincoln Chafee early in the process. I do think you have defended Trump on issues that are in my opinion indefensible.

I also think that you pooh pooh some of his transgressions also. This latest stunt by Trump further serves to chip away at the Democratic process. It plants the seed that there is something inherently corrupt about government.

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Most of what you think is "crap" is legitimate criticism that her supporters have no answer for.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

We have term limits for President. How's that working out for us this election cycle?

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Hawaii (fuck) You

A public option is completely necessary if the goal of Obamacare is to decrease insurance costs. You can't ask a pool that consists entirely of private companies to comply with more regulations (such as no denial for pre-existing conditions or eliminating caps on policies) and expect their costs to go down. What was the theory, that a larger pool of people paying in would somehow create better margins for insurance companies? If so, that's nonsense. Obamacare will never, ever decrease costs unless you have a public option to compete against the private companies. Every single additional coverage in an insurance policy has to be funded, and they are funded through higher premiums.

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Exactly

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

She's had people killed and all the other conspiracy theories aren't legitimate.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

She didn't lucky. They chose the person they believed was the best person to go up against her. Trump easily lapped the field. It wasn't too long ago that everyone bought the hype about change election. Well this is what it got us.

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ACA rates are going up because of all the reasons folks told you it would fail:

You can only charge the sick and elderly a max multiple of rates for young and healthy people. You force plans to take all comers. You did not force the young and healthy to buy in.

Young are overcharged.
Sick are undercharged.

Sick sign up. Young do not. Surprise, rates need to go up for all.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I don't see it as anything more than bad form, a lack of decorum, and disrespect for tradition. But these things hardly began with the ignoramus Donald Trump, nor are they the purview of one particular political party or those of a certain ideological bent.

I generally dislike rules, but there are certain protocols and ways of doing things that are the glue that holds society together. I am a traditionalist in that way.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The issue is just how they are "competing" with insurance companies. If they are simply driving them out of business by subsidizing the losses with tax dollars then it really isn't a good option either.

If it ran like the post office which is kind of like a company that competes with private companies then that would be fine.

Though, in my opinion, the smartest move would be to get government out of health care outside of Medicare/Medicaid but then setup a system where catastrophic medical bills are covered by the government. If you get cancer or have a kid who requires a lot of medical procedures then you get that covered. We don't really need them involved with day to day operations.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

And that pretty much never gets mentioned except among crazy people. Most criticism of her focuses on her dishonesty, corruption, and past support of terrible policy.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I think a publicly funded campaign finance system would produce a better crop of candidates and elected officials. I also believe that a rank voting system would help bring about the demise of our political duopoly and immeasurably benefit our government.

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I think we've reached a point where there is something inherently corrupt about government, don't you?

I know Lincoln Chafee personally and I would vouch for his integrity any time. He is unquestionably a better human being than either of these candidates.

I'm curious as to what indefensible positions of Trump you believe I have defended.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Medicare and Medicaid only survive because they force doctors to accept rates lower than the private market. Not sure if we have any MD's here, but if you know one, ask them if they accept Medicaid patients. Most will not take new patients. Medicaid is not even paying providers for services rendered. Both underpay relative to the costs of those services.

Unfortuately, health insurance is not insurance at all. It is a dollar trading scheme. Real insurance would be plans that attach at very high deductibles, and individuals would pick up 100% of all the routine costs. In that way, people would care about the cost and usage of such services and reduce the overall dollars being spent in the system. Premiums would be much lower because insurers wouldn't be picking up all those routine costs (the dollar trade).

What we have today is this: People pay a huge amount of money upfront in biweekly premiums. For that, they can use unlimited medical costs with low deductibles and low co-pays. It encourages overuse. It is like paying for your groceries through a payroll deduction. When you show up at Jewel, you can fill up your cart as much as you want and are only charged for 10% of the cost. What do you think happens to prices and the amount purchased?

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Hawaii (fuck) You