It is currently Sat Nov 16, 2024 3:41 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
What is it that makes the lineup so bipolar? Four shutouts in the playoffs, but the rest of the games, they've scored in bunches. Is it because of their constant attempts to draw walks? Pitchers who pound the zone make them look bad? I can't figure it out.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72378
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Variance

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 91933
Location: To the left of my post
AL Central is the best!

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:46 pm
Posts: 22415
pizza_Place: Giordano's
leashyourkids wrote:
What is it that makes the lineup so bipolar? Four shutouts in the playoffs, but the rest of the games, they've scored in bunches. Is it because of their constant attempts to draw walks? Pitchers who pound the zone make them look bad? I can't figure it out.


Throughout the season, the team was 4th in the MLB in plate discipline on pitches outside the zone, swinging at only 28.8% of pitches outside what can reasonably be defined as the average strike zone.

Last night, for instance, they swung at 42% of balls outside that zone.

However, when being shutout by power pitchers like Clayton Kershaw and Kenley Jensen, their plate discipline figures return to normal.

From the Pitch f/x data, it looks as though they are a team that struggles mightily on hitting breaking balls, their swing-and-miss percentage hovering in the 40-60% range.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 38675
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
They're all expanding, Bryant and Baez most notably. Id love to see Bryant's late inning high leverage AB splits for the year. He just seems to freak in those situations and totally loses strike zone discipline.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:46 pm
Posts: 10096
pizza_Place: Q's Hillside
Early in the season, there was a long string of games where they saw more pitches per plate appearance than their opponent. They were seeing more pitches in 8 innings at home than they were throwing in 9 innings. Good starters, bad starters, didn't matter.

The strike zone seems to expand just a little bit in the playoffs as umpires reward good pitchers for hitting the corner perfectly, and it helps the opponent more than the Cubs.

_________________
"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:46 pm
Posts: 10096
pizza_Place: Q's Hillside
badrogue17 wrote:
They're all expanding, Bryant and Baez most notably. Id love to see Bryant's late inning high leverage AB splits for the year. He just seems to freak in those situations and totally loses strike zone discipline.

He was bad all year at it. I remember looking it up back around the trade deadline, and it was substantially worse than low leverage situations.

Bryant Hi/Med/Lo leverage OPS: .754/.896/1.030
David Ortiz H/M/L: 1.027/1.066/.973

_________________
"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:05 am
Posts: 25181
Location: Cultural Mecca
pizza_Place: Pequod's / Barnaby's
badrogue17 wrote:
They're all expanding, Bryant and Baez most notably. Id love to see Bryant's late inning high leverage AB splits for the year. He just seems to freak in those situations and totally loses strike zone discipline.

You're correct. I posted them during the NLDS. Bryant is a bad high leverage hitter.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:08 pm
Posts: 3717
Location: East of Eden
pizza_Place: Vito and Nick's
IMU wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
They're all expanding, Bryant and Baez most notably. Id love to see Bryant's late inning high leverage AB splits for the year. He just seems to freak in those situations and totally loses strike zone discipline.

You're correct. I posted them during the NLDS. Bryant is a bad high leverage hitter.

So....is this something a player gets better at with experience? I ask this not because of Ortiz's numbers, but because of Bryant's. Just wondering if anyone knew off the top of their heads...

_________________
rogers park bryan wrote:
This registered sex offender I regularly converse with on the internet just said something really stupid


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:46 pm
Posts: 22415
pizza_Place: Giordano's
formerlyknownas wrote:
IMU wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
They're all expanding, Bryant and Baez most notably. Id love to see Bryant's late inning high leverage AB splits for the year. He just seems to freak in those situations and totally loses strike zone discipline.

You're correct. I posted them during the NLDS. Bryant is a bad high leverage hitter.

So....is this something a player gets better at with experience? I ask this not because of Ortiz's numbers, but because of Bryant's. Just wondering if anyone knew off the top of their heads...


I'm not sure. If it were true that a player can demonstrate an ability to "get better" at performing at or above career norms in high leverage situations, I think we would have to define that as "clutch", which is something Joe Sheehan, via Dan Bernstein, has told me over and over and over doesn't exist.

For reference, Ortiz's career in High/Medium/Low Leverage situations (in OPS+ relative to his career OPS) is 102/106/93. Bryant for his career is 91/103/102.

If we want to define "clutch" as "at least career average in high leverage situations", then David Ortiz is clutch, and Kris Bryant is a choke-artist. Bear in mind though, Bryant's career line (AVG/OBP/SLG) in high leverage situations is .288/.380/.470 in 258 PA's, which would be All-Star caliber for an overall batting line.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 6:08 pm
Posts: 3717
Location: East of Eden
pizza_Place: Vito and Nick's
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
IMU wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
They're all expanding, Bryant and Baez most notably. Id love to see Bryant's late inning high leverage AB splits for the year. He just seems to freak in those situations and totally loses strike zone discipline.

You're correct. I posted them during the NLDS. Bryant is a bad high leverage hitter.

So....is this something a player gets better at with experience? I ask this not because of Ortiz's numbers, but because of Bryant's. Just wondering if anyone knew off the top of their heads...


I'm not sure. If it were true that a player can demonstrate an ability to "get better" at performing at or above career norms in high leverage situations, I think we would have to define that as "clutch", which is something Joe Sheehan, via Dan Bernstein, has told me over and over and over doesn't exist.

For reference, Ortiz's career in High/Medium/Low Leverage situations (in OPS+ relative to his career OPS) is 102/106/93. Bryant for his career is 91/103/102.

If we want to define "clutch" as "at least career average in high leverage situations", then David Ortiz is clutch, and Kris Bryant is a choke-artist. Bear in mind though, Bryant's career line (AVG/OBP/SLG) in high leverage situations is .288/.380/.470 in 258 PA's, which would be All-Star caliber for an overall batting line.

Gotcha. Those career numbers for Bryant seem pretty good. I guess what we're talking about is situational hitting? I wonder if contact hitters fare better in this regard than "power" hitters (even those who, like Bryant, hit for power and average). I also wonder if those stats take into account the quality of the pitcher. Can of worms, this.

Essentially, I think Bryant is smart enough to learn to be a better situational hitter. But your stats seem to show that he's pretty good as it is....

Leaving to see what Harold Baines's stats are....

_________________
rogers park bryan wrote:
This registered sex offender I regularly converse with on the internet just said something really stupid


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:23 pm
Posts: 16779
pizza_Place: Little Caesar's
The Cubs have been like this since last year. Nothing new.

RELAX #TheyGotThis


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
It's because they can't hit a goddamn breaking ball. Kluber has hung some in the zone tonight, and we swing right through them. Same thing happened last year... I remember Theo saying that the Mets "pitched backwards" against the Cubs by leading at-bats with breaking balls.

First order of business in the offseason is for Theo's magic computer to find out which free agents have the most success against off-speed pitches and to sign those players so that we can platoon in the playoffs. This is the same thing that ended us last year.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625
I understand the high leverage stats thing but Bryant has gotten some huge hits. Home run to tie game 3 against SF was pretty big.

Hopefully it averages out in time.

Jeter was a playoff monster his first few years but eventually he played about a seasons worth and his numbers were typical Jeter. 300ish...20 HRs and 90 RBI


I guess what I'm saying is I hope Bryant plays 162 postseason games


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's
Baez and Contreras look awful, if I see Contreras fake bunt on the first pitch (usually a meatball) and then fall behind swinging at garbage I'm going to bust my TV.

_________________
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:10 pm
Posts: 6774
312player wrote:
Baez and Contreras look awful, if I see Contreras fake bunt on the first pitch (usually a meatball) and then fall behind swinging at garbage I'm going to bust my TV.



The fake bunt thing is out of control. He has been doing it all playoffs, and it's ridiculous. It's not fucking little league. Get ready, and smoke the first good pitch you get. Contreras, Baez, and Bryant have been swinging at shit all series. Baez is no doubt feeling all the attention he's been getting for the glove, but the bat really wasn't nothing special. It only looked that way because nobody was really hitting at the time. You can get him out every time just throwing sliders, no reason to throw a fastball.

_________________
Fuck Edwards and Zobrist


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
The other thing about Contreras' fake bunts is that half the time he doesn't even fake it until after it leaves the pitcher's hand. What is that supposed to accomplish? The point is to make the pitcher think twice. The only thing it accomplishes is to run the risk of stabbing a bunt at a ball out of the zone and getting an unnecessary strike.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:05 am
Posts: 25181
Location: Cultural Mecca
pizza_Place: Pequod's / Barnaby's
leashyourkids wrote:
The other thing about Contreras' fake bunts is that half the time he doesn't even fake it until after it leaves the pitcher's hand. What is that supposed to accomplish?

Draw the third baseman in on future pitches.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's
Its maddening watching the replays of Tomlin throwing dogshit and one Cub after the next is hacking away at that shit..no chance that happens again, West is behind the plate tonight, he squeezes pitchers too.

_________________
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:15 am
Posts: 27591
pizza_Place: nick n vito's
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
formerlyknownas wrote:
IMU wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
They're all expanding, Bryant and Baez most notably. Id love to see Bryant's late inning high leverage AB splits for the year. He just seems to freak in those situations and totally loses strike zone discipline.

You're correct. I posted them during the NLDS. Bryant is a bad high leverage hitter.

So....is this something a player gets better at with experience? I ask this not because of Ortiz's numbers, but because of Bryant's. Just wondering if anyone knew off the top of their heads...


I'm not sure. If it were true that a player can demonstrate an ability to "get better" at performing at or above career norms in high leverage situations, I think we would have to define that as "clutch", which is something Joe Sheehan, via Dan Bernstein, has told me over and over and over doesn't exist.

For reference, Ortiz's career in High/Medium/Low Leverage situations (in OPS+ relative to his career OPS) is 102/106/93. Bryant for his career is 91/103/102.

If we want to define "clutch" as "at least career average in high leverage situations", then David Ortiz is clutch, and Kris Bryant is a choke-artist. Bear in mind though, Bryant's career line (AVG/OBP/SLG) in high leverage situations is .288/.380/.470 in 258 PA's, which would be All-Star caliber for an overall batting line.






What about Joe Crede? Robert Horry?

_________________
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Laurence Holmes is a fucking weirdo, a nerd in denial, and a wannabe. Not a very good radio host either.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82153
312player wrote:
Its maddening watching the replays of Tomlin throwing dogshit and one Cub after the next is hacking away at that shit..no chance that happens again, West is behind the plate tonight, he squeezes pitchers too.


take a look at Tomlin's numbers in September and October this year

The guy has been pretty dominant.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:05 am
Posts: 25181
Location: Cultural Mecca
pizza_Place: Pequod's / Barnaby's
good dolphin wrote:
312player wrote:
Its maddening watching the replays of Tomlin throwing dogshit and one Cub after the next is hacking away at that shit..no chance that happens again, West is behind the plate tonight, he squeezes pitchers too.


take a look at Tomlin's numbers in September and October this year

The guy has been pretty dominant.

Against a weak AL. Keep up.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82153
IMU wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
312player wrote:
Its maddening watching the replays of Tomlin throwing dogshit and one Cub after the next is hacking away at that shit..no chance that happens again, West is behind the plate tonight, he squeezes pitchers too.


take a look at Tomlin's numbers in September and October this year

The guy has been pretty dominant.

Against a weak AL. Keep up.


sometimes I forget things

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Bump.

Same thing, different year.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Hitting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
leashyourkids wrote:
Bump.

Same thing, different year.


Let's hope with the same ultimate results.

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group