_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Weiner. Lies. Clinton. Fraud. Let us continue shall we........

Another deplorable

https://www.yahoo.com/news/north-caroli ... 20479.html

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Trump telling his supporters to commit voter fraud.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/donald-trump-c ... yptr=yahoo

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

From 2000 to 2014, out of billions of ballots, there were 31 confirmed cases of fraudulent voting. Bill Maher is right. Trump is a whiny little bitch.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Trump loves the uneducated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Op9Bkpeu4s

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

I am not here to defend Trump but the 31 number has me scratching my head. I have read it cited here and heard it mentioned many times but it cannot possibly be true I thought. Just knowing what we know about shenanigans in Cook county I figured over 14 years here had to be 31 cases alone. Anyway, quickly googling and only looking at two of the top results (which were left leaning sites) shows it is not true at all. Maybe I am missing something in the categorization of fraud or the defining of which type of fraud is which (i.e. institutional versus individual) but there are many cases and convictions.

The articles actually say it is a small issue and do not defend voter ID or something but they do raise questions about the 31 number.

First was Mother Jones: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... -elections and in it they say: That's simply not true, as many new outlets reported. (See here, here, and here). According to Politifact, there were just 85 prosecutions for voter fraud in Texas from 2002 to 2015, and not all of them led to convictions. That's a paltry number considering that more than 42 million ballots were cast in the state's general elections from 2002 to 2014.

From the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/us/vo ... trump.html they say: There are few prosecutions for any type of election fraud, even in a country where, in 2000, more than 105 million people voted for a presidential candidate. During the administration of President George W. Bush, the Justice Department pursued what was widely regarded as a crackdown on voter fraud. In the first five years, about 120 people were charged and 86 convicted.

So we can debate many aspects of voter fraud but we should stop saying it doesn't exist or there are on 31 cases. If you want to take an against stance it may be more accurate to say it exists in small numbers that rarely affect national elections.

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Elections have consequences.

Yeah, from a non-partisan standpoint, without discussing who the fraud may have benefited, I think it's pretty absurd to believe that there were less than 100 cases of voter fraud over a twelve year period.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Because of how you feel? I'll go with the numbers.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

In the first five years, about 120 people were charged and 86 convicted

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Elections have consequences.

The Weiner documentary was on last night. Huma's bad judgment is exemplified by the tool that she married.

_________________

Did it say where the hell he even came from? I wonder how such a turd gets so far up in politics and marries Clinton's right hand woman and lover?

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Elections have consequences.

Okay.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Trump is trying to get people to commit election fraud!
Election fraud isn't an issue!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think voter fraud is widespread. However, using cases and convictions as a metric is not the best representation of how pervasive it. I'll give you two examples:

1) How many people are speeding on the highway vs how many are given tickets?
2) How much retail theft occurs vs how many people are actually caught and convicted?

In both cases it's a low percentage. We just don't know what we don't know.

When I voted in the primary, I think I offended the clerk. My last name is a pain for people to spell. So I have a habit of just showing my ID whenever someone asks. Of course, they ask who I am to pull my paperwork at the voting precinct. They always have problems finding me in their paper book. So I pulled out my ID, and the lady screeched, turned away, and said don't show that.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I agree with you but it depends on how we define "widespread" and voter fraud. If I think about it, I probably know precinct captains in Chicago who have committed more than 31 acts of fraud in the past ten years. That's just a stupid number and pretty much made up just like the one in five women who are sexually assaulted or the 78 cents or ten percent of the population being gay. All phony numbers based on political agenda.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Guess we forgot already about the people being bussed from Wisconsin to Iowa to vote for Hillary.

_________________

Always tough when we don't know what we don't know.

I doubt election fraud is enough to swing any major election. Just my gut. However, I think it is completely reasonable to show an ID to vote. I am also sensitive to the fact that this country has historically found ways to deny the vote to certain groups. And it is ridiculous to me that Republicans would advocate laws would have the impact of reducing turnout. What Republicans should be doing is reaching out to those voters and finding ways to earn their votes. MANY countries have mandatory voting.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

And there's obviously the fear that requiring an ID will be a way to do just that. But I think we could figure out a way to offer a free ID and make it easy enough to obtain that such a requirement would not disenfranchise any voter.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I am in line with the way you two seem to be on the matter. There will be many that disagree with what I highlighted and personally think is the best answer. There will be many arguments from many perspectives and all of them may have some merit. I cannot think of an easier solution though. I guess I fall in line with the school of thought that it doesn't matter if fraud is a huge or little problem it should be avoided either way. Aside from voting every citizen has an id or social security number or can legally cheaply (free is better) get one.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

Of course there is. We make people register to vote. That doesn't disenfranchise anyone. We make people vote in person at least one time. That doesn't disenfranchise anyone.

There is a big difference between not putting in the effort to get a free identification card and being disenfranchised.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If one were to be cynical they could think that the ones that argue the most against something are the ones that benefit the most. Hypothetically.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

That's a good counterargument to those who naively claim voter fraud doesn't exist. However, I can also see the argument that the "solution" might not be worth it. For example, we could reduce or eliminate speeding by installing electronic restrictors on all cars, or having speeding camera systems put in on the expressways...but does the public want that?

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The same could be said of those who argue for something.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

well, you are right there.

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Elections have consequences.

When I voted in the primary, I wore a Feel The Bern shirt. The clerk said "I don't think you are allowed to wear that" I laughed and she said no, I'm serious. I laughed again and got in line.

_________________

You should be arrested.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

An ode to the "Never Trump" crowd. For those that spend endless amounts of time focusing on false equivalencies and other forms of obfuscation tactics I give you the very essence of what Donald "Make America Great Again" Trump happens to be. Do with it what you must.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... mp/506042/

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Okay