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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:10 am 
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She wouldn't be running virtually all negative ads about Trump if she wasn't basically saying "A vote for me is a vote against Trump".

Obama didn't have to do it in either election. His were mostly positive.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Trump blewout the Republican field. Being not the field appeared to work quite well for him until it didnt. She would have beaten anyone in the Republican field too.
She is struggling to beat the worst Republican candidate I've ever seen. Virtually every one of her political ads right now is negative against Trump. It's at least 10 to 1 in terms of "Trump is bad" vs. "Clinton is good".

But, if what you say is true, and she would beat any Repbulican because that many people like her, then that is all the more reason for a protest vote against both of them. Thanks ltg!


If that Billy Bush tape did not come out she would likely be losing. If Trump had stuck to his message of change, trade and quit being the policeman of the world Clinton would have lost. Instead he decided to get into fights with the family of a dead marine, wing it at the debates and generally self destruct on Twitter. If she wasn't a terrible candidate it would not be close.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:22 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Trump blewout the Republican field. Being not the field appeared to work quite well for him until it didnt. She would have beaten anyone in the Republican field too.
She is struggling to beat the worst Republican candidate I've ever seen. Virtually every one of her political ads right now is negative against Trump. It's at least 10 to 1 in terms of "Trump is bad" vs. "Clinton is good".

But, if what you say is true, and she would beat any Repbulican because that many people like her, then that is all the more reason for a protest vote against both of them. Thanks ltg!


If that Billy Bush tape did not come out she would likely be losing. If Trump had stuck to his message of change, trade and quit being the policeman of the world Clinton would have lost. Instead he decided to get into fights with the family of a dead marine, wing it at the debates and generally self destruct on Twitter. If she wasn't a terrible candidate it would not be close.


It is though sort of fights that propelled him to the nomination. Those fights are what fires up his "base". Without those fights he is nobody.

No guarantee he wins even if he pivots. He only made it a race during the Hillary health scare period. He has been done since the first debate. Thar effectively ended his presidency. The first time they appeared on stage together it became evident why he can't be President.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:33 am 
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I'm going to miss Bruce Rauners voice "I will support the Republican nominee". Also will miss seeing Mike madigans crinkly old face on my TV.


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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:36 am 
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Clinton has jumped to -580 at my offshore book. This Friday or Saturday she was around -385. A week or so ago she was around -250.


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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:37 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Clinton has jumped to -580 at my offshore book. This Friday or Saturday she was around -385. A week or so ago she was around -250.
She's clearly going to win which is why no one should vote for her.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:03 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Protest vote. Anything else is an endorsement of the two party system and both candidates it gave us.


You can protest vote in Illinois.

You can protest vote anywhere. I'd vote for Gary Johnson regardless of which state I lived in. Trump and Clinton are morally reprehensible choices.
This is where I am now.

The other issue is that Democrats are already setting it up that if Hillary wins by a good amount to use it as some sort of political mandate by the people that we want what her and the Democrats are selling when clearly she won mostly because she is "Not Trump".


You know what's funny? You and Hillary are more aligned on fiscal and social issues than any candidate that ran for president this cycle. Hillary will make deals with Paul Ryan.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:10 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
She wouldn't be running virtually all negative ads about Trump if she wasn't basically saying "A vote for me is a vote against Trump".

Obama didn't have to do it in either election. His were mostly positive.


Ask Mike Dukakis how far a positive campaign gets you?

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:10 am 
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Nas wrote:
You know what's funny? You and Hillary are more aligned on fiscal and social issues than any candidate that ran for president this cycle. Hillary will make deals with Paul Ryan.
I don't really fear Hillary as much as I fear the Democrats as a whole. I'm just not a fan of what guys like Bernie were selling and trying to push the party towards. If they can put it down then that would be great.

That is why I want Hillary to win but I want her barely to win.

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Last edited by Brick on Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:10 am 
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Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
She wouldn't be running virtually all negative ads about Trump if she wasn't basically saying "A vote for me is a vote against Trump".

Obama didn't have to do it in either election. His were mostly positive.


Ask Mike Dukakis how far a positive campaign gets you?
Why not ask Obama?

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:19 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Trump blewout the Republican field. Being not the field appeared to work quite well for him until it didnt. She would have beaten anyone in the Republican field too.
She is struggling to beat the worst Republican candidate I've ever seen. Virtually every one of her political ads right now is negative against Trump. It's at least 10 to 1 in terms of "Trump is bad" vs. "Clinton is good".

But, if what you say is true, and she would beat any Repbulican because that many people like her, then that is all the more reason for a protest vote against both of them. Thanks ltg!


If that Billy Bush tape did not come out she would likely be losing. If Trump had stuck to his message of change, trade and quit being the policeman of the world Clinton would have lost. Instead he decided to get into fights with the family of a dead marine, wing it at the debates and generally self destruct on Twitter. If she wasn't a terrible candidate it would not be close.


I mostly agree. She is really awful campaigning. Probably the worst I've ever seen.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:21 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
She wouldn't be running virtually all negative ads about Trump if she wasn't basically saying "A vote for me is a vote against Trump".

Obama didn't have to do it in either election. His were mostly positive.


Ask Mike Dukakis how far a positive campaign gets you?
Why not ask Obama?


He ran negative ads against McCain and Romney during the summer to define them. They were also normal politicians.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:24 am 
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Nas wrote:
He ran negative ads against McCain and Romney during the summer to define them. They were also normal politicians.
I know almost all politicians have negative ads especially as it gets close.

The ratio here has to be 10-1 right now though.

I get why. Trump is horrible and set himself up for this. The point though is that she is simply positioning herself as "Not Trump".

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:25 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
You know what's funny? You and Hillary are more aligned on fiscal and social issues than any candidate that ran for president this cycle. Hillary will make deals with Paul Ryan.
I don't really fear Hillary as much as I fear the Democrats as a whole. I'm just not a fan of what guys like Bernie were selling and trying to push the party towards. If they can put it down then that would be great.

That is why I want Hillary to win but I want her barely to win.


That makes sense. I think secretly she probably wants the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:32 am 
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I'm not a 75 year old racist xenophobe, so not Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:36 am 
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Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
You know what's funny? You and Hillary are more aligned on fiscal and social issues than any candidate that ran for president this cycle. Hillary will make deals with Paul Ryan.
I don't really fear Hillary as much as I fear the Democrats as a whole. I'm just not a fan of what guys like Bernie were selling and trying to push the party towards. If they can put it down then that would be great.

That is why I want Hillary to win but I want her barely to win.


That makes sense. I think secretly she probably wants the same.


Hillary has no "cause". What is the major goal of her administration? Fix healthcare? She will rule by the polls like her husband. That's their prime directive. Survival.

When the college loan bubble bursts what Bernie was selling won't look so crazy.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:39 am 
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I'm voting for Johnson. He isn't a good candidate but this is about long term. If he gets the 5%, the Libertarians don't have to fight to get on the ballot in all 50 states and they get matching federal funding like the GOP and Dems. Voting for Johnson is more a vote for the future of the Libertarian party rather than a vote for only Gary Johnson. When Tim Kaine is running in 2024, I don't want to be stuck with a lesser of two evils option again. I want the Libertarian candidate to have a realistic shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:40 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Protest vote. Anything else is an endorsement of the two party system and both candidates it gave us.



Agreed.

Going with Johnson cause he's pro weed and want to give some steam to an 3rd party.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:42 am 
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shakes wrote:
Going with Johnson cause he's pro weed
Hmmmmm.....

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:44 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
He ran negative ads against McCain and Romney during the summer to define them. They were also normal politicians.
I know almost all politicians have negative ads especially as it gets close.

The ratio here has to be 10-1 right now though.

I get why. Trump is horrible and set himself up for this. The point though is that she is simply positioning herself as "Not Trump".


And it's a reasonable strategy for her given that she has the second-lowest approval rating among any major party presidential nominee since polls first began tracking this statistic in 1980. The only nominee with a lower rating is Trump.

So it has been her goal to make people forget how much they despise her while constantly reminding the electorate how bad Trump really is.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:46 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
He ran negative ads against McCain and Romney during the summer to define them. They were also normal politicians.
I know almost all politicians have negative ads especially as it gets close.

The ratio here has to be 10-1 right now though.

I get why. Trump is horrible and set himself up for this. The point though is that she is simply positioning herself as "Not Trump".


And it's a reasonable strategy for her given that she has the second-lowest approval rating among any major party presidential nominee since polls first began tracking this statistic in 1980. The only nominee with a lower rating is Trump.

So it has been her goal to make people forget how much they despise her while constantly reminding the electorate how bad Trump really is.
Agreed.

This was more to counter the idea that people are voting for her instead of against Trump. Even Hillary is basically telling you to vote against Trump.

I think Hillary is correct to do it. She'll get the title even if it is as undeserved as another 2016 champion.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:17 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
He ran negative ads against McCain and Romney during the summer to define them. They were also normal politicians.
I know almost all politicians have negative ads especially as it gets close.

The ratio here has to be 10-1 right now though.

I get why. Trump is horrible and set himself up for this. The point though is that she is simply positioning herself as "Not Trump".


And it's a reasonable strategy for her given that she has the second-lowest approval rating among any major party presidential nominee since polls first began tracking this statistic in 1980. The only nominee with a lower rating is Trump.

So it has been her goal to make people forget how much they despise her while constantly reminding the electorate how bad Trump really is.
Agreed.

This was more to counter the idea that people are voting for her instead of against Trump. Even Hillary is basically telling you to vote against Trump.

I think Hillary is correct to do it. She'll get the title even if it is as undeserved as another 2016 champion.


The only two groups that actively like Hillary are white suburban women over 55 and LTG.

Pretty much everybody else knows she sucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:35 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:

The only two groups that actively like Hillary are white suburban women over 55 and LTG.

Pretty much everybody else knows she sucks.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:37 am 
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I'm still baffled every time I read/hear someone who is very Pro-Trump or Pro-Clinton. At best you should be holding your nose and voting for one or the other. I don't understand how anyone can support either candidate without bringing up how bad the other one is.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:43 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm still baffled every time I read/hear someone who is very Pro-Trump or Pro-Clinton. At best you should be holding your nose and voting for one or the other. I don't understand how anyone can support either candidate without bringing up how bad the other one is.


Just said that to a co-worker- No one is waking up tomorrow and excited to go vote for either Trump or Clinton.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:44 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm still baffled every time I read/hear someone who is very Pro-Trump or Pro-Clinton. At best you should be holding your nose and voting for one or the other. I don't understand how anyone can support either candidate without bringing up how bad the other one is.


Just said that to a co-worker- No one is waking up tomorrow and excited to go vote for either Trump or Clinton.


The "I'm With Her" slogan is terrible too. No one is with you. They just hate/are scared less.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:13 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:17 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:31 pm 
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Here is the deal or maybe not. Our last 2 presidents were both ill equipped to do the job from the moment they entered until possibly the time they left. Bush was a tough talking incompetent that sold out to Neo cons and Business elites while Obama conned the Middle and Poorer classes into thinking he was like them.


Hillary CLinton has a better grasp on the inner workings of govt than either of them. She also is pragmatic and isn't afraid to work with the other side. She probably will amass more votes than any person that has ever run for President. She has a sizable Pro-Hillary faction. In fact this faction attempted to have her run for President in 12. This notion that she is the Anti Trump candidate is mostly cooked by Never Trumpers that just cant seem to accept the fact that they supported such a flawed candidate.

She will be fine as President

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:42 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Bad choices all around. I am simply voting for the candidate that aligns closest to my political beliefs. I can't vote for an anti trade candidate nor I can support somone who is so casual with our alliances like Taiwan and NATO.

I've got a big conference downtown next week, so sadly, I can't enjoy much election night coverage. It is a sure bet that America loses regardless of the outcome.


Casual wiht our allies?
The current administration,of which Clinton was part of like it or not, fucked up one of our longest allies period. An ally we basically got involved in WW2 over. An ally who fought side by side with up in 3 fucking wars and never complained until now.

The Brits seem to like us just fine Chas.


This puzzled me as well. Still waiting though...

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