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'Fruits' is a whole lot simpler than typing out all the variations on the dick-or-no-dick crowd, never mind that ones that can't decide to sit down or stand up to pee irrespective of their plumbing. You want people to listen to your message? Codify your membership into something easily said ... if you have to take a couple of breaths while saying your club's title, it's time to rethink it ... 'The Los Angeles Angele of Anaheim' is the maximum length any name ever needs to be.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

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... Or nothing at all.

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Uh, you know Abedin a) was married to a Jewish guy, who (when he was not sexting) voted against selling arms to the Saudis, took a hard line against the Palestinians, claimed the NYT was biased against Israel and is an Islanders fan and b) even had Republicans say the whole Muslim Brotherhood connection thing was BS.

As for Trump, there is an argument to be made that he is a bigger threat, existentially, to Israel. The argument, coarsely outlined, is that Israel needs to come to grips and cut a deal that leads to a 2 state solution to secure Israel's continued viability. Instead, Bibi, and his band of hardliners, ignoring the reality of demographic trends, are adamant that it not happen, thus, dooming Israel's future existence. Sheldon Adelson, one of Trumps major donors, is a Bibi fan. As Trump is not going to buck Adelson, Israel will continue careening on its self-destructive path and inevitably swallowed whole.

What did he say?

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Taqiyya and muruna are real concepts. But if she married an Islanders fan, she must be okay!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Just stop. It's embarrassing.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What's embarrassing is your naivete.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I challenged you to post one (1) credible link showing Huma's ties to terrorism. You were unable to do so, and are still pushing a bullshit, debunked, right wing narrative. My naïveté has nothing to do with you looking just silly here. This isn't an argument you can win.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Look, I'm not gonna get into this where I'm posting links to Breitbart and you're coming back with links to HuffPo.

Taqiyya and muruna are real Arabic words with real definitions. Does somebody practice these concepts? If so, in what circumstances?

Do you know practicing Judaism is illegal in Saudi Arabia? But here's a woman who is from a strict Saudi Muslim family, yet she married a Jew and she has not been ostracized from that family. You don't find that the slightest bit odd? There are young women from similar families who have been stoned to death for less.

The only thing I'm saying is that a Hillary Clinton White House would almost certainly be less friendly to Jews than a Trump administration. And I think there would be some serious questions to be asked regarding Abedin if Clinton had won and Abedin was going to be in a position of power in a Clinton administration.

If FDR had wanted to hire the son of a frequent dinner guest of Adolph Eichmann to be his Chief of Staff in 1943, do you think it would be unreasonable or bigoted to question that?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Also, Vanity Fair isn't exactly known as a right-wing magazine with an anti-Clinton agenda.

Here's the Abedin article:

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/01/ ... on-adviser

Of course the piece infuriated Clinton and she rallied her friendly media army to "de-bunk" the facts as printed.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It's impossible to debunk facts.

And your Eichmann comment is absurd and quite clearly a terrible analogy.

So an admittedly debunked Vanity Fair article is the only thing you got? Good talk.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You only think it's a terrible analogy because you refuse to accept that we are at war.

And you're right, you can't debunk facts. There was a reason I used quotation marks around "debunk".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

JORR still beating Hillary after she's dead.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Did I miss something in the article? Can you point me to where she did something to draw comparisons to the architect of Hitler's Final Solution? Was it the unpaid maternity leave?

_________________

We are at war with terrorists, not Muslims. If you think we are at war with Muslims then you should approve of Trump's plan to ban them and you should go one step further and advocate that all of them leave this country. I don't see you doing that.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What kind of terrorists?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Muslim terrorists. Please respond to the rest my post if you're gonna try this dumbass "gotcha".

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Obviously, you know that wasn't the comparison.

But I think this paragraph alone is reason for concern at a minimum:

Abedin was born in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Her mother, Saleha Mahmood Abedin, is Pakistani; her late father, Syed Zainul Abedin, was Indian. Both were intellectuals. When Abedin was two years old, the family moved to Jidda, Saudi Arabia, where, with the backing of Abdullah Omar Nasseef, then the president of King Abdulaziz University, her father founded the Institute of Muslim Minority Affairs, a think tank, and became the first editor of its Journal of Muslim Minority Affairs, which stated its mission as “shedding light” on minority Muslim communities around the world in the hope of “securing the legitimate rights of these communities.”

After Syed died, in 1993, his wife succeeded him as director of the institute and editor of the Journal, positions she still holds. She has also been active in the International Islamic Council for Da’wa and Relief, which is now headed by Nasseef and was banned in Israel on account of its ties to the Union of Good, a pro-Hamas fund-raising network, run by Yusuf al-Qaradawi.

Google Abdullah Omar Nasseef, the man who set up the Abedins in Jidda, and a host of right-wing screeds pop up. Though he is a high-ranking insider in the Saudi government and sits on the king’s Shura Council, there are claims that Nasseef once had ties to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda—a charge that he has denied through a spokesman—and that he remains a “major” figure in the Muslim Brotherhood. In his early years as the patron of the Abedins’ journal, Nasseef was the secretary-general of the Muslim World League, which Andrew McCarthy, the former assistant U.S. attorney who prosecuted the “Blind Sheik,” Omar Abdel Rahman, in the wake of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, claims “has long been the Muslim Brotherhood’s principal vehicle for the international propagation of Islamic supremacist ideology.”

Google Yusuf al-Qaradawi and you’ll find even more right-wing hysteria. Says McCarthy, who has conducted something of a personal crusade on the question of the Abedin family’s purported connections, “The Union of Good is a designated terrorist organization and Qaradawi is the leading global jurisprudent”—a term McCarthy prefers to “cleric”—“of the Muslim Brotherhood, who has issued fatwas calling for suicide bombings in the Palestinian territories and in Israel and has called for the killings of American soldiers in Iraq.”

It turns out the Journal of Muslim Minority Affairs is an Abedin family business. Huma was an assistant editor there between 1996 and 2008. Her brother, Hassan, 45, is a book-review editor at the Journal and was a fellow at the Oxford Center for Islamic Studies, where Nasseef is chairman of the board of trustees. Huma’s sister, Heba, 26, is an assistant editor at the Journal.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

But that's the kind of dancing around that is nothing more than a willful and "politically correct" (and I don't care for and rarely use that term) refusal to acknowledge what is really happening.

Of course I don't want all Muslims to "leave the country". But we also have to recognize that there is an issue. This isn't some harmless belief system where we just pray five times a day and leave everyone else alone. It's a political ideology that is at odds with most of the values I have seen you express in this forum. I don't know what the answer is except for Muslims to reform their religion themselves.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You're the one dancing here, not me. On the one hand, you're trying to imply we are at war with Islam. On the other hand, you won't come out and say that you want every Muslim to leave the country. Which one is it? If I believed we were at war with Muslims, I sure as fuck would want every last one of them out of the country. But we're not, and you and I both know that.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So in that context are you ok with the internment of Japanese Americans in WW2? Not being condescending or trying to play gotcha. I'm just asking

_________________

It's a fair question, but we also had Japanese-Americans fighting for our side in WW2. Presumably, in a hypothetical war with all Muslims, none would be fighting on our side. I served with Muslims and talked to Afghani 'terps and I'm sure you have too while you were serving.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You are spot on about terps. I think they bought in bc of the idea we were cooperatively working towards a nation state. Both interpreters in Iraq and Afghanistan had high levels of love for their country. They didn't see what we were doing as war on a religious footing.


I hadn't thought of it from their perspective. Thanks

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I'm not implying it. I'm flat out saying it.

There isn't a majority Muslim country on earth where you and I wouldn't be second class citizens as non-believers. Muslims in the U.S. aren't in a position of power so it's not something we have to be concerned about, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some core beliefs that are held by all Muslims.

These are bad beliefs. It doesn't make people who hold them bad people. People are people. They're taught certain things as indisputable truths. I was taught a religion loaded with bad ideas myself. The difference being that that religion has had hundreds of years of progress, science, and Western secularism to buff down some of the roughest edges. Islam is operating in a Seventh Century paradigm.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

JORR and Trump agree on Muslims and the border.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

That's all it took? A little reacharound from FavreFan? FUckin' Millenials...

_________________

Your only mistake is that you referred to them as two separate people.

_________________

Looks to me like somebody's been dipping his wick in some nice tahini sauce-laden shawarma lately.

. . . Just the vibe I'm gettin' here, but I bet I'm right.

_________________
I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE