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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:33 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Can you imagine the discussion if this was done for Hillary or even Obama? "Not My President" would be viewed in a much different light.


That's absolutely true. And if you have any sense of fairness that should disturb you. Even though I'm dismayed that Trump won the election, it's this kind of bias that causes me to make statements that appear that I'm defending him.

Clinton was the more traditional candidate and much more likely to follow established protocols and traditions. And that stuff matters to me. But if we're sounding alarms about "danger", it doesn't matter that Hillary accepted defeat or that Trump refused to acknowledge that he would have. The danger is in the people, isn't it? But the media portrays these protestors as "Americans exercising their rights and using their voices" while any group of Trump supporters is inevitably painted as an "angry mob" and "dangerous".

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:35 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:41 am 
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Cashman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Can you imagine the discussion if this was done for Hillary or even Obama? "Not My President" would be viewed in a much different light.



Sexist? Racist?


If the situation were reversed the protesters would be characterized as uneducated, sexist, misogynistic, and dangerously divisive.

If H.S. and college kids are upset and hysterical over the results of the election I'm beginning to think America may have made the right choice after all.


Last edited by Tad Queasy on Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:45 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Chus wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Where is the media now to warn us that this refusal to accept the results of this democratic election is "dangerous"?


Hillary accepted defeat.



Is the danger in what one person does or how a mob acts?


The media reacted the way they did because a candidate said they may not concede.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:48 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Can you imagine the discussion if this was done for Hillary or even Obama? "Not My President" would be viewed in a much different light.


That's absolutely true. And if you have any sense of fairness that should disturb you. Even though I'm dismayed that Trump won the election, it's this kind of bias that causes me to make statements that appear that I'm defending him.

Clinton was the more traditional candidate and much more likely to follow established protocols and traditions. And that stuff matters to me. But if we're sounding alarms about "danger", it doesn't matter that Hillary accepted defeat or that Trump refused to acknowledge that he would have. The danger is in the people, isn't it? But the media portrays these protestors as "Americans exercising their rights and using their voices" while any group of Trump supporters is inevitably painted as an "angry mob" and "dangerous".


No you are not. You've been making the same statements for over a year and it had nothing to do with fairness.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:49 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Chus wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Where is the media now to warn us that this refusal to accept the results of this democratic election is "dangerous"?


Hillary accepted defeat.



Is the danger in what one person does or how a mob acts?


The media reacted the way they did because a candidate said they may not concede.


Agree to disagree. I think the media reacted the way they did because it was Trump saying it. I don't remember any warnings of "danger" when Gore un-conceded and his man Billy Daley was running around Florida trying to call Bush's election "illegitimate".

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:51 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Can you imagine the discussion if this was done for Hillary or even Obama? "Not My President" would be viewed in a much different light.


That's absolutely true. And if you have any sense of fairness that should disturb you. Even though I'm dismayed that Trump won the election, it's this kind of bias that causes me to make statements that appear that I'm defending him.

Clinton was the more traditional candidate and much more likely to follow established protocols and traditions. And that stuff matters to me. But if we're sounding alarms about "danger", it doesn't matter that Hillary accepted defeat or that Trump refused to acknowledge that he would have. The danger is in the people, isn't it? But the media portrays these protestors as "Americans exercising their rights and using their voices" while any group of Trump supporters is inevitably painted as an "angry mob" and "dangerous".


No you are not. You've been making the same statements for over a year and it had nothing to do with fairness.


Now you're going to tell me what I think. My words speak for themselves. And I'm sorry you can't separate people's disdain for Hillary Clinton from support for Donald Trump.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:56 am 
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Tad Queasy wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Can you imagine the discussion if this was done for Hillary or even Obama? "Not My President" would be viewed in a much different light.



Sexist? Racist?


If the situation were reversed the protesters would be characterized as sexist, misogynistic, and dangerously divisive.

If H.S. and college kids are upset and hysterical over the results of the election I'm beginning to think America may have made the right choice after all.



While I believe what they are doing is dumb they aren't using slurs to describe Trump and MANY of the protesters look like him. In 2008 we had Darkside and others criticizing President Obama and couple of days after he was in office and lying about voting for him. We had Tea Party people in the street protesting and MANY were using racial slurs to describe the president. Those people were called patriots by MANY and MANY said they had the right to protest.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:57 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Chus wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Where is the media now to warn us that this refusal to accept the results of this democratic election is "dangerous"?


Hillary accepted defeat.



Is the danger in what one person does or how a mob acts?


The media reacted the way they did because a candidate said they may not concede.


Agree to disagree. I think the media reacted the way they did because it was Trump saying it. I don't remember any warnings of "danger" when Gore un-conceded and his man Billy Daley was running around Florida trying to call Bush's election "illegitimate".


He took back his concession because an automatic recount was triggered.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:03 am 
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Nas wrote:
Tad Queasy wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Can you imagine the discussion if this was done for Hillary or even Obama? "Not My President" would be viewed in a much different light.



Sexist? Racist?


If the situation were reversed the protesters would be characterized as sexist, misogynistic, and dangerously divisive.

If H.S. and college kids are upset and hysterical over the results of the election I'm beginning to think America may have made the right choice after all.


While I believe what they are doing is dumb they aren
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Can you imagine the discussion if this was done for Hillary or even Obama? "Not My President" would be viewed in a much different light.


That's absolutely true. And if you have any sense of fairness that should disturb you. Even though I'm dismayed that Trump won the election, it's this kind of bias that causes me to make statements that appear that I'm defending him.

Clinton was the more traditional candidate and much more likely to follow established protocols and traditions. And that stuff matters to me. But if we're sounding alarms about "danger", it doesn't matter that Hillary accepted defeat or that Trump refused to acknowledge that he would have. The danger is in the people, isn't it? But the media portrays these protestors as "Americans exercising their rights and using their voices" while any group of Trump supporters is inevitably painted as an "angry mob" and "dangerous".


No you are not. You've been making the same statements for over a year and it had nothing to do with fairness.


While I believe what they are doing is dumb they aren't using slurs to describe Trump and MANY of the protesters look like him. In 2008 we had Darkside and others criticizing President Obama and couple of days after he was in office and lying about voting for him. We had Tea Party people in the street protesting and MANY were using racial slurs to describe the president. Those people were called patriots by MANY and MANY said they had the right to protest.



Just to lighten it up a bit... Wouldn't it be silly to call Trump one of those racial slurs? :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:04 am 
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Nas wrote:
Tad Queasy wrote:
Cashman wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Can you imagine the discussion if this was done for Hillary or even Obama? "Not My President" would be viewed in a much different light.



Sexist? Racist?


If the situation were reversed the protesters would be characterized as sexist, misogynistic, and dangerously divisive.

If H.S. and college kids are upset and hysterical over the results of the election I'm beginning to think America may have made the right choice after all.


While I believe what they are doing is dumb they aren
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Can you imagine the discussion if this was done for Hillary or even Obama? "Not My President" would be viewed in a much different light.


That's absolutely true. And if you have any sense of fairness that should disturb you. Even though I'm dismayed that Trump won the election, it's this kind of bias that causes me to make statements that appear that I'm defending him.

Clinton was the more traditional candidate and much more likely to follow established protocols and traditions. And that stuff matters to me. But if we're sounding alarms about "danger", it doesn't matter that Hillary accepted defeat or that Trump refused to acknowledge that he would have. The danger is in the people, isn't it? But the media portrays these protestors as "Americans exercising their rights and using their voices" while any group of Trump supporters is inevitably painted as an "angry mob" and "dangerous".


No you are not. You've been making the same statements for over a year and it had nothing to do with fairness.


While I believe what they are doing is dumb they aren't using slurs to describe Trump and MANY of the protesters look like him. In 2008 we had Darkside and others criticizing President Obama and couple of days after he was in office and lying about voting for him. We had Tea Party people in the street protesting and MANY were using racial slurs to describe the president. Those people were called patriots by MANY and MANY said they had the right to protest.


I didn't agree with questioning the legitimacy of Obama. Or Bush II either. Everybody has the right to protest, but we also all have the right to vote for the president. And if the system is going to work, we all have to accept the results.

If you're saying that racism is the basis for the dislike MANY people had for Obama, I certainly wouldn't disagree.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:06 am 
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I'm not sure exactly when that "not my president" crap started. I think with Bill Clinton. Maybe the second term?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:10 am 
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pittmike wrote:
I am very afraid.

bernsie understands

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:12 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'm not sure exactly when that "not my president" crap started.
When that picture of Theo walking on Lake Michigan was printed.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:17 am 
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Nas wrote:
While I believe what they are doing is dumb they aren't using slurs to describe Trump and MANY of the protesters look like him. In 2008 we had Darkside and others criticizing President Obama and couple of days after he was in office and lying about voting for him. We had Tea Party people in the street protesting and MANY were using racial slurs to describe the president. Those people were called patriots by MANY and MANY said they had the right to protest.


Here's the other thing though. Of course, working class whites elected Trump. And of course there are flat out racists among that group. It would be ridiculous to argue otherwise. But this is the same country that elected Obama twice. And Obama is the most popular president since Reagan. MANY people who voted for Trump had to have voted for Obama (and Bill Clinton).

I do find it odd that when you look at the polling and the numbers, the majority thinks the country is on the wrong track but a majority thinks Obama is doing a good job too. To me that suggests there is more at play than just simple economics and one's own circumstances. There is emotion involved. As much as Hillary Clinton is unlikable, Obama is a likable guy. And whatever a person thinks about him, whether that person is a racist, a Republican, whether he/she disliked his policies, whatever, Obama filled the office in a way that cannot be called anything but "presidential".

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:18 am 
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JORR'S Gore to Trump media coverage analogy only works if Gore publicly threatened, several times, to not accept the results of the election because the thing was rigged. Holding off on accepting a contestable result is one thing, and threatening to dispute the results in advance because of unsupported claims of rigging is another. The former is rationale and part of the electoral process itself (dispute resolution), the latter is, in fact, dangerous.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:20 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'm not sure exactly when that "not my president" crap started. I think with Bill Clinton. Maybe the second term?


I remember it with W.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:21 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
JORR'S Gore to Trump media coverage analogy only works if Gore publicly threatened, several times, to not accept the results of the election because the thing was rigged. Holding off on accepting a contestable result is one thing, and threatening to dispute the results in advance because of unsupported claims of rigging is another. The former is rationale and part of the electoral process itself (dispute resolution), the latter is, in fact, dangerous.


He didn't have to actually say it. The implication was clear. Bush "stole" Florida with the help of his brother the governor and a right-wing Supreme Court. There are still MANY Deomcrats that refuse to accept the result to this day. To argue otherwise is as partisan as it gets.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:28 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
JORR'S Gore to Trump media coverage analogy only works if Gore publicly threatened, several times, to not accept the results of the election because the thing was rigged. Holding off on accepting a contestable result is one thing, and threatening to dispute the results in advance because of unsupported claims of rigging is another. The former is rationale and part of the electoral process itself (dispute resolution), the latter is, in fact, dangerous.


He didn't have to actually say it. The implication was clear. Bush "stole" Florida with the help of his brother the governor and a right-wing Supreme Court. There are still MANY Deomcrats that refuse to accept the result to this day. To argue otherwise is as partisan as it gets.


I'm not interested in partisan arguments. I'm simply saying that I think you've put forward a false equivalency argument a couple times with regard to coverage of Trump and Clinton. I'm not a big fan of MSM, but there's no doubt that Trump had to receive more scrutiny than Clinton because, believe it or not, he actually lies more than someone who is best known for lying (there is a tracking site I'm too lazy to look up that documents this), and also because of the unprecedented things Trump would do or say, such as implying Russia should hack into Clinton's emails, undermining the electoral process, etc. Naturally those activities lend themselves to more scrutiny. And if a democratic version of Trump was on the stage, with all the same idiosyncrasies and general unhinged behavior, then that person should also receive more scrutiny.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:29 am 
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pittmike wrote:

Just to lighten it up a bit... Wouldn't it be silly to call Trump one of those racial slurs? :wink:


It would. He is orange

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:34 am 
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Nas wrote:
pittmike wrote:

Just to lighten it up a bit... Wouldn't it be silly to call Trump one of those racial slurs? :wink:


It would. He is orange

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:38 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
JORR'S Gore to Trump media coverage analogy only works if Gore publicly threatened, several times, to not accept the results of the election because the thing was rigged. Holding off on accepting a contestable result is one thing, and threatening to dispute the results in advance because of unsupported claims of rigging is another. The former is rationale and part of the electoral process itself (dispute resolution), the latter is, in fact, dangerous.


He didn't have to actually say it. The implication was clear. Bush "stole" Florida with the help of his brother the governor and a right-wing Supreme Court. There are still MANY Deomcrats that refuse to accept the result to this day. To argue otherwise is as partisan as it gets.


I'm not interested in partisan arguments. I'm simply saying that I think you've put forward a false equivalency argument a couple times with regard to coverage of Trump and Clinton. I'm not a big fan of MSM, but there's no doubt that Trump had to receive more scrutiny than Clinton because, believe it or not, he actually lies more than someone who is best known for lying (there is a tracking site I'm too lazy to look up that documents this), and also because of the unprecedented things Trump would do or say, such as implying Russia should hack into Clinton's emails, undermining the electoral process, etc. Naturally those activities lend themselves to more scrutiny. And if a democratic version of Trump was on the stage, with all the same idiosyncrasies and general unhinged behavior, then that person should also receive more scrutiny.


I just posted in another thread that Trump lied during the campaign much more than Clinton. It wasn't even close. But I don't think that's why there was a bias in the media. I even understand the bias! Trump is a vulgarian scumbag. Who would want him as president? But it really shouldn't be the job of "news" channels to lead cheers for a candidate. At least not if you want to call yourself a journalist. Put the facts out there. If people are too dumb to understand them, they get what they deserve.

Anyway, there's no doubt the Gore campaign questioned the legitimacy of the 2000 election, in spite of the fact that Gore himself didn't come right out and say it. And the media never considered that "dangerous". In fact, most media members seemed to be hoping Gore could find a way to overturn Florida.

Sure you have Fox and Breitbart, but educated people laugh at them and consider them "fringe" media. The media bias is natural. Most people who work in media are educated, live in large cities, and tend to have liberal viewpoints. It's usually easy to see when a subject isn't being covered fairly. If the media was comprised of hundreds of Sean Hannitys I'd be railing against anti-Clinton bullshit.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:55 am 
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I lied about voting for Obama?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:57 am 
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Darkside wrote:
I lied about voting for Obama?
Jeanius,,,you must have! Its because you wanted CHANGE ???

lol

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:58 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The media bias is natural. Most people who work in media are educated, live in large cities, and tend to have liberal viewpoints. It's usually easy to see when a subject isn't being covered fairly. If the media was comprised of hundreds of Sean Hannitys I'd be railing against anti-Clinton bullshit.


Why can't a lot of people that lean left see this when media bias gets mentioned. It doesn't have to be something that has to be denied ferociously. It is what it is and it is in fact real. It is about as silly as saying Hollywood isn't mainly democrat.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:03 am 
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Nas wrote:
They won't vote but they'll protest the vote. That's backwards.


They are not protesting the vote. They are protesting the outcome.

Petulant children.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:04 am 
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Darkside wrote:
I lied about voting for Obama?


Yes! That was your excuse for criticizing him within days of becoming president. You later admitted to voting for Bob Barr.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:04 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Chus wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Where is the media now to warn us that this refusal to accept the results of this democratic election is "dangerous"?


Hillary accepted defeat.



Is the danger in what one person does or how a mob acts?


How she reacts should set the tone for how her supporters act. It looks like they peacefully marched for a bit with their signs, and then went home. Had she spent the last month complaining about a rigged election, perhaps we would have seen a much bigger, and possibly violent protest. Seems like a non story here.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:09 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:11 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
JORR'S Gore to Trump media coverage analogy only works if Gore publicly threatened, several times, to not accept the results of the election because the thing was rigged. Holding off on accepting a contestable result is one thing, and threatening to dispute the results in advance because of unsupported claims of rigging is another. The former is rationale and part of the electoral process itself (dispute resolution), the latter is, in fact, dangerous.


He didn't have to actually say it. The implication was clear. Bush "stole" Florida with the help of his brother the governor and a right-wing Supreme Court. There are still MANY Deomcrats that refuse to accept the result to this day. To argue otherwise is as partisan as it gets.


Don't forget a Florida secretary of state who served as Bush's state chair and was looking to certify the election as quickly as she could the moment votes broke Bushes way...oh, and she was then given a presidential appointment

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.


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