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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:11 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I am very afraid.


I won't let you be made into a lampshade.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:20 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The media bias is natural. Most people who work in media are educated, live in large cities, and tend to have liberal viewpoints. It's usually easy to see when a subject isn't being covered fairly. If the media was comprised of hundreds of Sean Hannitys I'd be railing against anti-Clinton bullshit.


Why can't a lot of people that lean left see this when media bias gets mentioned. It doesn't have to be something that has to be denied ferociously. It is what it is and it is in fact real. It is about as silly as saying Hollywood isn't mainly democrat.


This is sort of complicated in that while I'd agree that many popular hosts (Burnett, Cooper, Fox, etc.) may lean left, and that persuasion is apparent in their coverage, the entities for whom they work are not "liberal." Often times these major conglomerates are dominated by republicans. That aside, and I'm not looking for a right vs left thing, I think in this particular election the Trump factor transcended partisan lines. You had many on the right, whether journalists or politicians, repeatedly attack Trump, sometimes with even more ferocity than putative liberal hosts (Ana Navarro comes to mind). This is because, again, Trump ran an incredibly unique campaign that compelled more fact-checking than normal, which came off as partisan but again there was nothing partisan about it. To be fair, things came off the rails a bit after the Access NBC thing, but on the other hand that arguably became more of a moral issue than a political one, and certainly much more personal.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:12 am 
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Nas wrote:
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I lied about voting for Obama?


Yes! That was your excuse for criticizing him within days of becoming president. You later admitted to voting for Bob Barr.

I honest don't remember this. I'm a bit surprised I'd criticize him in the first few days of presidency.
Are these posts still around? Maybe I'm missing some context.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:13 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I am very afraid.


I won't let you be made into a lampshade.


:lol: Thanks

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:14 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The media bias is natural. Most people who work in media are educated, live in large cities, and tend to have liberal viewpoints. It's usually easy to see when a subject isn't being covered fairly. If the media was comprised of hundreds of Sean Hannitys I'd be railing against anti-Clinton bullshit.


Why can't a lot of people that lean left see this when media bias gets mentioned. It doesn't have to be something that has to be denied ferociously. It is what it is and it is in fact real. It is about as silly as saying Hollywood isn't mainly democrat.


This is sort of complicated in that while I'd agree that many popular hosts (Burnett, Cooper, Fox, etc.) may lean left, and that persuasion is apparent in their coverage, the entities for whom they work are not "liberal." Often times these major conglomerates are dominated by republicans. That aside, and I'm not looking for a right vs left thing, I think in this particular election the Trump factor transcended partisan lines. You had many on the right, whether journalists or politicians, repeatedly attack Trump, sometimes with even more ferocity than putative liberal hosts (Ana Navarro comes to mind). This is because, again, Trump ran an incredibly unique campaign that compelled more fact-checking than normal, which came off as partisan but again there was nothing partisan about it. To be fair, things came off the rails a bit after the Access NBC thing, but on the other hand that arguably became more of a moral issue than a political one, and certainly much more personal.


Interesting piece on how the media handled this.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary- ... tion-2016/

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:23 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Sure you have Fox and Breitbart, but educated people laugh at them and consider them "fringe" media. The media bias is natural. Most people who work in media are educated, live in large cities, and tend to have liberal viewpoints. It's usually easy to see when a subject isn't being covered fairly. If the media was comprised of hundreds of Sean Hannitys I'd be railing against anti-Clinton bullshit.


I don't think this last part of your sentence is true--the surveys I've read show that those affiliated with the corporate media tend to be fiscally conservative while being just left of center on social issues.

Also, I think it's clear that the corporate media reflects the views of our ruling elites, who may disagree with one another on some issues but still represent a very narrow range of opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:33 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Sure you have Fox and Breitbart, but educated people laugh at them and consider them "fringe" media. The media bias is natural. Most people who work in media are educated, live in large cities, and tend to have liberal viewpoints. It's usually easy to see when a subject isn't being covered fairly. If the media was comprised of hundreds of Sean Hannitys I'd be railing against anti-Clinton bullshit.


I don't think this last part of your sentence is true--the surveys I've read show that those affiliated with the corporate media tend to be fiscally conservative while being just left of center on social issues.

Also, I think it's clear that the corporate media reflects the views of our ruling elites, who may disagree with one another on some issues but still represent a very narrow range of opinion.


I think veganfan addressed that above in that the people behind the scenes running these media conglomerates are almost certainly more conservative than the people they put on the air. Why they allow an editorial stance that may be somewhat opposed to their personal views probably comes down to money. There has to be more money in advertising to the educated elites in the large cities than there is in selling Sham-Wows and Garden Weasels to coal miners. (I know that sounds horribly elitist. I can't help it. :lol: ) And I'm talking tongue-in-cheek here, but I think there's an underlying element of truth.

Anyway, I think your last paragraph is right on. You can really see it in the fact that Trump was even too outre for many of those at Fox.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:44 am 
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A Letter from Aaron Sorkin to his daughter and her mother.

Sorkin Girls,

Well the world changed late last night in a way I couldn’t protect us from. That’s a terrible feeling for a father. I won’t sugarcoat it—this is truly horrible. It’s hardly the first time my candidate didn’t win (in fact it’s the sixth time) but it is the first time that a thoroughly incompetent pig with dangerous ideas, a serious psychiatric disorder, no knowledge of the world and no curiosity to learn has.

And it wasn’t just Donald Trump who won last night—it was his supporters too. The Klan won last night. White nationalists. Sexists, racists and buffoons. Angry young white men who think rap music and Cinco de Mayo are a threat to their way of life (or are the reason for their way of life) have been given cause to celebrate. Men who have no right to call themselves that and who think that women who aspire to more than looking hot are shrill, ugly, and otherwise worthy of our scorn rather than our admiration struck a blow for misogynistic shitheads everywhere. Hate was given hope. Abject dumbness was glamorized as being “the fresh voice of an outsider” who’s going to “shake things up.” (Did anyone bother to ask how? Is he going to re-arrange the chairs in the Roosevelt Room?) For the next four years, the President of the United States, the same office held by Washington and Jefferson, Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt, F.D.R., J.F.K. and Barack Obama, will be held by a man-boy who’ll spend his hours exacting Twitter vengeance against all who criticize him (and those numbers will be legion). We’ve embarrassed ourselves in front of our children and the world.

And the world took no time to react. The Dow futures dropped 7,000 points overnight. Economists are predicting a deep and prolonged recession. Our NATO allies are in a state of legitimate fear. And speaking of fear, Muslim-Americans, Mexican-Americans and African-Americans are shaking in their shoes. And we’d be right to note that many of Donald Trump’s fans are not fans of Jews. On the other hand, there is a party going on at ISIS headquarters. What wouldn’t we give to trade this small fraction of a man for Richard Nixon right now?

So what do we do?

First of all, we remember that we’re not alone. A hundred million people in America and a billion more around the world feel exactly the same way we do.

Second, we get out of bed. The Trumpsters want to see people like us (Jewish, “coastal elites,” educated, socially progressive, Hollywood…) sobbing and wailing and talking about moving to Canada. I won’t give them that and neither will you. Here’s what we’ll do…

…we’ll fucking fight. (Roxy, there’s a time for this kind of language and it’s now.) We’re not powerless and we’re not voiceless. We don’t have majorities in the House or Senate but we do have representatives there. It’s also good to remember that most members of Trump’s own party feel exactly the same way about him that we do. We make sure that the people we sent to Washington—including Kamala Harris—take our strength with them and never take a day off.

We get involved. We do what we can to fight injustice anywhere we see it—whether it’s writing a check or rolling up our sleeves. Our family is fairly insulated from the effects of a Trump presidency so we fight for the families that aren’t. We fight for a woman to keep her right to choose. We fight for the First Amendment and we fight mostly for equality—not for a guarantee of equal outcomes but for equal opportunities. We stand up.

America didn’t stop being America last night and we didn’t stop being Americans and here’s the thing about Americans: Our darkest days have always—always—been followed by our finest hours.

Roxy, I know my predictions have let you down in the past, but personally, I don’t think this guy can make it a year without committing an impeachable crime. If he does manage to be a douche nozzle without breaking the law for four years, we’ll make it through those four years. And three years from now we’ll fight like hell for our candidate and we’ll win and they’ll lose and this time they’ll lose for good. Honey, it’ll be your first vote.

The battle isn’t over, it’s just begun. Grandpa fought in World War II and when he came home this country handed him an opportunity to make a great life for his family. I will not hand his granddaughter a country shaped by hateful and stupid men. Your tears last night woke me up, and I’ll never go to sleep on you again.

Love,
Dad


Bernstein probably read this to his kids over breakfast this morning.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:05 pm 
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America wrote:
This is death rattle of the victim left.

Yeah. Upper-middle-class white women were front and center on this, prattling on about defeating the patriarchy by seeing a Ghostbusters remake, and now they need to grab some bench, because disregarding everyone who wasn't well-off enough or educated enough blew an easy win.

The problem is that we're probably going to have to fight harder than ever for their causes under this president, but God, we can't do it their way.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:14 pm 
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Tad Queasy wrote:
Image


I have to laugh at this....."expert" commentators have been offering up this theory, I believe partially to explain their own ineptitude in predicting wrongly that Clinton would coast to an easy victory in the Presidential election.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:15 pm 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Tad Queasy wrote:
Image


I have to laugh at this....."expert" commentators have been offering up this theory, I believe partially to explain their own ineptitude in predicting wrongly that Clinton would coast to an easy victory in the Presidential election.
Our own "uneducated white male" finally weighed in!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:18 pm 
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:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:19 pm 
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If all these idiots actually voted maybe she would have won.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:31 pm 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
If all these idiots actually voted maybe she would have won.





Nah...half the people who didnt vote, would have gone either way..both candidate suck. Bernie was the ray of of hope for this country, these Clinton backing turds fucked him. They deserve this outcome.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:58 pm 
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I love the spin on this whole thing. This is truly rich. Hillary Clinton is to blame because America has Donald Trump for President now. No one wants to admit that the reason that he is President is because a large portion of this country wanted him to be President. It's just that simple.

Hillary Clinton played some role but the truth is that a number of people supported him because they agree with views.

I thought about yesterday actually and it supports what Ive been saying about the xenophobic racist elements in his campaign. There was a period during the primaries when his support began to wane. Coincidentally it occurred when he changer his positions on the wall and Muslim ban. He briefly pivoted and when he did they began booing him and bashing him. It lasted for about a week and he reverted back to his original positions out of fear that he'd lose a portion of his "base".

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:22 pm 
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The blame starts and just about ends with the DNC. They're the ones who Bill Bucknered this.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:28 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
I love the spin on this whole thing. This is truly rich. Hillary Clinton is to blame because America has Donald Trump for President now. No one wants to admit that the reason that he is President is because a large portion of this country wanted him to be President. It's just that simple.

Hillary Clinton played some role but the truth is that a number of people supported him because they agree with views.

I thought about yesterday actually and it supports what Ive been saying about the xenophobic racist elements in his campaign. There was a period during the primaries when his support began to wane. Coincidentally it occurred when he changer his positions on the wall and Muslim ban. He briefly pivoted and when he did they began booing him and bashing him. It lasted for about a week and he reverted back to his original positions out of fear that he'd lose a portion of his "base".


like someone watching a car accident, I began to follow the Trump campaign after the R convention. I don't think what you're saying is at all accurate. I'd love to see you reference actual speeches this began to happen in.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:53 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
The blame starts and just about ends with the DNC. They're the ones who Bill Bucknered this.


Um, no.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:47 pm 
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GoldenJet wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
The blame starts and just about ends with the DNC. They're the ones who Bill Bucknered this.


Um, no.

You're right, the Democrats did a great job never going to a crucial swing state and employing Lena Dunham to tell people they were irrelevant.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:12 pm 
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312player wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
If all these idiots actually voted maybe she would have won.





Nah...half the people who didnt vote, would have gone either way..both candidate suck. Bernie was the ray of of hope for this country, these Clinton backing turds fucked him. They deserve this outcome.


I don't understand how one can believe that the lesson to be extrapolated here is that The United States of America was just itching to elect an elderly, Athiest, Jewish Socialist.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:20 pm 
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Peter Puck wrote:
I don't understand how one can believe that the lesson to be extrapolated here is that The United States of America was just itching to elect an elderly, Athiest, Jewish Socialist.


Nearer My God To Thee

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:21 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
I love the spin on this whole thing. This is truly rich. Hillary Clinton is to blame because America has Donald Trump for President now. No one wants to admit that the reason that he is President is because a large portion of this country wanted him to be President. It's just that simple.

Hillary Clinton played some role but the truth is that a number of people supported him because they agree with views.

I thought about yesterday actually and it supports what Ive been saying about the xenophobic racist elements in his campaign. There was a period during the primaries when his support began to wane. Coincidentally it occurred when he changer his positions on the wall and Muslim ban. He briefly pivoted and when he did they began booing him and bashing him. It lasted for about a week and he reverted back to his original positions out of fear that he'd lose a portion of his "base".


You are discounting the people vote (R) no matter what - I don't know that number. You are discounting the people that voted not politician. You are discounting the people that don't like Hillary. There are a lot of people in those groups. The # of people that have voted Republican has been almost the same for at least 3 elections. You seem like you are pretty far down this rabbit hole of it's all racism but I don't see what that is necessarily based on or how factual that is. I'm sorry you believe that many people feel that way but is it coming from a place of anger or disappointment in the results of the election?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:22 pm 
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47% of the people who voted did so for Trump. That's about 60,000,000 people out of like 320,000,000 in the country. Plenty of people who wanted to Trump to win didn't vote too.

Point is, there are Trump voters everywhere who just are not admitting it. Members of the media totally aware it would be career ending to publically, or even privately amongst colleagues, support Trump...but alone in the voting booth they checked his name. College students who secretly voted for Trump are going to these anti-Trump protests and pretending to go along because a girl they like is going. There is even some millennial blogger writing some dramatic "sky is falling" shitheap that voted for Trump. You put any 10 people in a room and its a near statistical certainty that there is a Trump supporter in that room. Sure demographics may shift the proportion (sometimes wildly), but there is gonna be one in that room. Even in Illinois 40% of the people you see every day (this appears to also be the margin in Cook County) voted Trump.

So when people ask "HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? WHERE DID THEY COME FROM?" the answer is really all around you. They are afraid to admit it, perhaps even to themselves, but they are there. The silent majority should be more aptly called the hidden majority, and they are doing so in plain sight.

On the flip side there is probably a forklift driver from Indiana who voted Hillary but wont dare admit it amongst his forklift driver from Indiana friends.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:35 pm 
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They kind of have to. There's not a lot of choice in the climate we live in.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:49 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-liberals
Quote:
Clinton’s supporters among the media didn’t help much, either. It always struck me as strange that such an unpopular candidate enjoyed such robust and unanimous endorsements from the editorial and opinion pages of the nation’s papers, but it was the quality of the media’s enthusiasm that really harmed her. With the same arguments repeated over and over, two or three times a day, with nuance and contrary views all deleted, the act of opening the newspaper started to feel like tuning in to a Cold War propaganda station. Here’s what it consisted of:

-Hillary was virtually without flaws. She was a peerless leader clad in saintly white, a super-lawyer, a caring benefactor of women and children, a warrior for social justice.
-Her scandals weren’t real.
-The economy was doing well / America was already great.
-Working-class people weren’t supporting Trump.
-And if they were, it was only because they were botched humans. Racism was the only conceivable reason for lining up with the Republican candidate.

How did the journalists’ crusade fail? The fourth estate came together in an unprecedented professional consensus. They chose insulting the other side over trying to understand what motivated them. They transformed opinion writing into a vehicle for high moral boasting. What could possibly have gone wrong with such an approach?

Put this question in slightly more general terms and you are confronting the single great mystery of 2016. The American white-collar class just spent the year rallying around a super-competent professional (who really wasn’t all that competent) and either insulting or silencing everyone who didn’t accept their assessment. And then they lost. Maybe it’s time to consider whether there’s something about shrill self-righteousness, shouted from a position of high social status, that turns people away.


You know, I'd say "fuck these people, defund NPR," but then they'd just get even more funding from Wal-Mart and Lockheed Martin than they already do.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:59 pm 
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How many people who stormed Wabash and Wacker last night to protest realize that Trump carried large swaths of the city they live in? Because pretty much everyone I know from the old neighborhood was all in on Trump, and this is not particularly far from where she grew up. I cant imagine the SW side was Hillary territory either.

Yea yea the urbanites became out of touch with rural America, but they dont even understand people who live 20 minutes away on the train. This is not geographic isolation, its something else.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:17 am 
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While you're right that this is about the failures of high-status liberalism and people who don't indeed know what's going on twenty minutes from their homes, I wouldn't hand the northwest/southwest sides to Trump*. White, yes, working-class and/or bigoted, sure, but that's as prime do-as-you're-told-by-the-Party territory as it gets. For fuck's sake, the southwest side is where Mike Madigan wins elections by basically having someone round up petitions for "Paco Fakenameguez" to run against him.

At any rate, this liberalism of endless war and inscrutably dense public policy beneath a veneer of letting transsexuals take a shit at Whole Foods is not viable going forward. Maybe they'll learn.

*EDIT: to Trump, not Hillary, whooooooops

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Last edited by Curious Hair on Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:37 am 
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Downballot you're right. Even in bigger Illinois races you're right, I mean my grandmother STILL thinks Blagojevich was railroaded.

But national elections? They've been voting R up there for quite a while. Obama got votes because he was playing home games and sure, this is probably the first time union members en masse went red, but its been culturally conservative my entire life. I mean these presidential elections have been so thoroughly reported on and obsessed over that there's just no way even Madigan can seize control of the narrative.

That's kind of his brilliance, he doesn't get involved in that stuff. Prey on the publics lack of knowledge/interest in downballot elections and clean up while not getting involved in shitshows like Trump/Clinton where neither choice will help you at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:01 am 
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ward by ward and precinct by precinct results are available

It might be interesting to see if this were true

I would bet the NW side is where you will find the most R punches as it is a populated by cops and firemen without a strong ward boss

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:00 am 
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Here we go
http://about2day.com/illegal-immigrants-threaten-revolt-trump-begins-deporting-will-war/#.WCU3R4X6mcM.facebook

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"


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