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JORR
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:57 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
a "Republican" President and a few dumb things he said that he has already walked back


You keep saying this, but it makes no sense. Would you be okay with a president saying he was going to round up all the Jews if he "walked it back" once he was in office?


"You need both a public and a private position,” Mrs. Clinton said in an April 2013 address. “You just have to sort of figure out how to — getting back to that word, ‘balance’ - how to balance the public and the private efforts that are necessary to be successful, politically, and that’s not just a comment about today.”


Do you know the context of that statement? It was describing how President Lincoln or anyone who has sold anything gets it done by appealing to the self interest of others. There is NOTHING wrong with that.


But isn't that what Trump has done? There can definitely be something wrong with it depending on who/what you're appealing to and what you're actually selling.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:06 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
He ran a campaign of division that hasn't been seen nationally in decades. He made people who look like me, Hispanics, Muslims, gays, the disabled, women and people who believe in deceny the enemy. We all saw this. People who voted for Trump agreed with him or they excused these things for other reasons. Comparing these people to the voters of Obama or any president in the past 30 years is bullshit.
The demographics of who voted for him don't really match up with this line of thinking though. Mitt Romney did much worse with minorities and a good percentage of women still voted for Trump. That is the point.
Nas wrote:
Now you and MANY others are tying yourselves into knots trying to excuse Trump's actions and rhetoric. You're claiming people are stereotyping all Trump's supporters as racists and bigots and that's complete bullshit. LTG hasn't even done that. You're also claiming he didn't mean these awful things even though he just made Steve "Alt Right" Bannon his top adviser. #WelcomeBack1956
I'm not excusing any actions. What he said was dumb and I didn't want him to win.


What? Sure it does. As I said people agreed with it OR they excused it for other reasons. A lower percentage of voters didn't vote so naturally the numbers are skewed.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:13 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
a "Republican" President and a few dumb things he said that he has already walked back


You keep saying this, but it makes no sense. Would you be okay with a president saying he was going to round up all the Jews if he "walked it back" once he was in office?


"You need both a public and a private position,” Mrs. Clinton said in an April 2013 address. “You just have to sort of figure out how to — getting back to that word, ‘balance’ - how to balance the public and the private efforts that are necessary to be successful, politically, and that’s not just a comment about today.”


Do you know the context of that statement? It was describing how President Lincoln or anyone who has sold anything gets it done by appealing to the self interest of others. There is NOTHING wrong with that.


But isn't that what Trump has done? There can definitely be something wrong with it depending on who/what you're appealing to and what you're actually selling.


There hasn't been a private sale because he didn't expect to win. We left that Trump rally understanding why MANY people were voting for him. He made appeals to the deplorables and whites who believe they've been left behind and he convinced others that he could give them jobs.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:14 am 
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Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
He ran a campaign of division that hasn't been seen nationally in decades. He made people who look like me, Hispanics, Muslims, gays, the disabled, women and people who believe in deceny the enemy. We all saw this. People who voted for Trump agreed with him or they excused these things for other reasons. Comparing these people to the voters of Obama or any president in the past 30 years is bullshit.
The demographics of who voted for him don't really match up with this line of thinking though. Mitt Romney did much worse with minorities and a good percentage of women still voted for Trump. That is the point.
Nas wrote:
Now you and MANY others are tying yourselves into knots trying to excuse Trump's actions and rhetoric. You're claiming people are stereotyping all Trump's supporters as racists and bigots and that's complete bullshit. LTG hasn't even done that. You're also claiming he didn't mean these awful things even though he just made Steve "Alt Right" Bannon his top adviser. #WelcomeBack1956
I'm not excusing any actions. What he said was dumb and I didn't want him to win.


What? Sure it does. As I said people agreed with it OR they excused it for other reasons. A lower percentage of voters didn't vote so naturally the numbers are skewed.
Look at the percentages.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:18 am 
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312player wrote:
Nas, I bet you are kicking yourself in the nuts for not giving Bernie a fair shake..ain't ya



Bernie would not have won either. This was a pro Trump vote.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:25 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
He ran a campaign of division that hasn't been seen nationally in decades. He made people who look like me, Hispanics, Muslims, gays, the disabled, women and people who believe in deceny the enemy. We all saw this. People who voted for Trump agreed with him or they excused these things for other reasons. Comparing these people to the voters of Obama or any president in the past 30 years is bullshit.
The demographics of who voted for him don't really match up with this line of thinking though. Mitt Romney did much worse with minorities and a good percentage of women still voted for Trump. That is the point.
Nas wrote:
Now you and MANY others are tying yourselves into knots trying to excuse Trump's actions and rhetoric. You're claiming people are stereotyping all Trump's supporters as racists and bigots and that's complete bullshit. LTG hasn't even done that. You're also claiming he didn't mean these awful things even though he just made Steve "Alt Right" Bannon his top adviser. #WelcomeBack1956
I'm not excusing any actions. What he said was dumb and I didn't want him to win.


What? Sure it does. As I said people agreed with it OR they excused it for other reasons. A lower percentage of voters didn't vote so naturally the numbers are skewed.
Look at the percentages.


They are skewed because far fewer people voted. Regardless that still doesn't change the statement that I made. People voted for Trump because they agreed with him or they excused his behavior and words for other reasons.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:29 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let me put it this way. If race and gender were the deciding factors in this election then Hillary would be moving in the White House.


They were a factor. Considering how close it was in MANY states Trump won, they may have been the deciding factor. He put all the things I listed earlier in the thread on the ballot and people voted for him because they agreed or they excused it for other reasons.

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Chus
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:29 am 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Blacks have not been largely ignored. There are program after program to help them .There is money poured into the communities . The problem is the usual a) level of corruption when there is any amount of money poorly administered by the government and b) Sorry but the entire Black culture that glorifies the thug life and ridicules the hard worker.


You keep telling LTG that he is wrong, yet every post like this confirms what he is saying. You are making his point for him.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:29 am 
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Nas wrote:
They are skewed because far fewer people voted. Regardless that still doesn't change the statement that I made. People voted for Trump because they agreed with him or they excused his behavior and words for other reasons.
How can they be skewed because fewer people voted?

It's also very hard to make a case that this election was about division and making non-whites the enemy when you also are saying that people didn't even take the time to vote.

The fact is that Trump outperformed Romney in pretty much every demographic and mostly by pretty big numbers.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:32 am 
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Chus wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Blacks have not been largely ignored. There are program after program to help them .There is money poured into the communities . The problem is the usual a) level of corruption when there is any amount of money poorly administered by the government and b) Sorry but the entire Black culture that glorifies the thug life and ridicules the hard worker.


You keep telling LTG that he is wrong, yet every post like this confirms what he is saying. You are making his point for him.


In his inherent ignorance he doesn't realize that he is promoting the same stereotypes that Trump happens to espouse.

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:38 am 
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I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:39 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
They are skewed because far fewer people voted. Regardless that still doesn't change the statement that I made. People voted for Trump because they agreed with him or they excused his behavior and words for other reasons.
How can they be skewed because fewer people voted?

It's also very hard to make a case that this election was about division and making non-whites the enemy when you also are saying that people didn't even take the time to vote.

The fact is that Trump outperformed Romney in pretty much every demographic and mostly by pretty big numbers.


People voted for Trump because they agreed with him or they excused his words and behavior for other reasons. MANY ignored it for economic reasons. Why is this something hard for you to understand?

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Hatchetman
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:40 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?


Is this a trick question? :lol:

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:41 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?


For MANY a man will always be superior to a woman. MANY women believe this too.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:43 am 
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Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
They are skewed because far fewer people voted. Regardless that still doesn't change the statement that I made. People voted for Trump because they agreed with him or they excused his behavior and words for other reasons.
How can they be skewed because fewer people voted?

It's also very hard to make a case that this election was about division and making non-whites the enemy when you also are saying that people didn't even take the time to vote.

The fact is that Trump outperformed Romney in pretty much every demographic and mostly by pretty big numbers.


People voted for Trump because they agreed with him or they excused his words and behavior for other reasons. MANY ignored it for economic reasons. Why is this something hard for you to understand?
MANY in the groups you referenced did not feel like they were made to be the enemy though.

You included women in your list. Do you feel they believe Trump considers them to be the enemy?

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:47 am 
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Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?


For MANY a man will always be superior to a woman. MANY women believe this too.

:scratch: I don't believe that for a second. So Elizabeth Warren wouldn't have won?

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City of Fools
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:56 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?


Is this a trick question? :lol:

I voted for Obama twice and Hillary once. Trick question? Which candidate is essentially carrying on Barack's policies? They guy that got voted into office twice?

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:57 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
They are skewed because far fewer people voted. Regardless that still doesn't change the statement that I made. People voted for Trump because they agreed with him or they excused his behavior and words for other reasons.
How can they be skewed because fewer people voted?

It's also very hard to make a case that this election was about division and making non-whites the enemy when you also are saying that people didn't even take the time to vote.

The fact is that Trump outperformed Romney in pretty much every demographic and mostly by pretty big numbers.


People voted for Trump because they agreed with him or they excused his words and behavior for other reasons. MANY ignored it for economic reasons. Why is this something hard for you to understand?
MANY in the groups you referenced did not feel like they were made to be the enemy though.

You included women in your list. Do you feel they believe Trump considers them to be the enemy?


MANY people didn't care for other reasons. Do you believe that Trump has said a lot of awful things? Do you believe that some people voted for Trump because of these awful things? Do you believe that MANY others heard the same things and strongly disagreed with him BUT still voted for him?

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:58 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?


For MANY a man will always be superior to a woman. MANY women believe this too.

:scratch: I don't believe that for a second. So Elizabeth Warren wouldn't have won?


I think you need to refrain from predictions for awhile. Elizabeth Warren will get her chance in 2020. I don't think she has a good chance of winning either.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:58 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?


For MANY a man will always be superior to a woman. MANY women believe this too.

:scratch: I don't believe that for a second. So Elizabeth Warren wouldn't have won?


Not in 2016 for MANY reasons.

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Tall Midget
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:01 am 
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Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?


For MANY a man will always be superior to a woman. MANY women believe this too.

:scratch: I don't believe that for a second. So Elizabeth Warren wouldn't have won?


Not in 2016 for MANY reasons.


Such as?

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:02 am 
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Nas wrote:
MANY people didn't care for other reasons. Do you believe that Trump has said a lot of awful things? Do you believe that some people voted for Trump because of these awful things? Do you believe that MANY others heard the same things and strongly disagreed with him BUT still voted for him?
I'm sure there are thousands of different reasons both Trump and Clinton got votes.

When talking about his campaign and how he got elected the numbers don't indicate that race and gender was the reason he won or lost.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:06 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
MANY people didn't care for other reasons. Do you believe that Trump has said a lot of awful things? Do you believe that some people voted for Trump because of these awful things? Do you believe that MANY others heard the same things and strongly disagreed with him BUT still voted for him?
I'm sure there are thousands of different reasons both Trump and Clinton got votes.

When talking about his campaign and how he got elected the numbers don't indicate that race and gender was the reason he won or lost.


Thanks for not answering my questions.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:09 am 
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I did answer them.

Well, I missed one but I said it earlier. Trump said some awful things.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:10 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
Nas wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?


For MANY a man will always be superior to a woman. MANY women believe this too.

:scratch: I don't believe that for a second. So Elizabeth Warren wouldn't have won?


Not in 2016 for MANY reasons.


Such as?


In the past I would say because she lacked experience. Now I don't have much.

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Tall Midget
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:13 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
I just don't get why a country could elect Barack Obama twice and then not elect Hillary Clinton. What changed?


1)Because Obama campaigned as a force for change whereas Hillary Clinton is the ultimate establishment figure;

2)Because working-class whites in the Rust Belt wanted payback for NAFTA;

3)Because a significant number of blacks, particularly black millennials see Clinton as racist (thanks to her positions on mass incarceration, welfare reform, and her condescending treatment of a BLM leader) and sat the election out.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:15 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I did answer them.

Well, I missed one but I said it earlier. Trump said some awful things.


You didn't. Let's try it again.

Do you believe Trump said some awful things?

Do you believe that some people voted for Trump because they agreed with the awful things that he said?

Do you believe that some people voted for Trump even though they strongly disagreed with the awful things he said?

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:17 am 
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Nas wrote:
Do you believe Trump said some awful things?
Yes.

Nas wrote:
Do you believe that some people voted for Trump because they agreed with the awful things that he said?
Yes.

Nas wrote:
Do you believe that some people voted for Trump even though they strongly disagreed with the awful things he said?
Yes.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:27 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
Do you believe Trump said some awful things?
Yes.

Nas wrote:
Do you believe that some people voted for Trump because they agreed with the awful things that he said?
Yes.

Nas wrote:
Do you believe that some people voted for Trump even though they strongly disagreed with the awful things he said?
Yes.


We're in agreement then.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:35 am 
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