As Americans we believe that all men are endowed with inalienable rights by their Creator. That is to say these rights are inherent and cannot be taken away by another man. Obviously, that's an abstract concept that doesn't always work from a practical standpoint as is illustrated very clearly just by looking at slavery.

The idea of inalienable rights does not exist without the Constitution and enforcement thereof. If we are "citizens of the world" we have no Constitution and are thus subject to the whims of the latest dictator who has seized power.

Obama seems to believe that "American exceptionalism" doesn't exist. But make no mistake, your rights, in as much as you have any, are inextricably tied to America. They don't exist under some ambiguous global system. When I hear a really smart guy like Noam Chomsky decry American exceptionalism I wonder if he is aware that it's the very exceptionalism that he is decrying that allows him to decry it.

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Freedom is our Strength.

more importantly, they cannot be given away by any action of the holder, either

I don't think most believe in that part

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Your post starts with a questionable premise that most Trump supporters don't truthfully share, and have actively worked against throughout this country's sordid history.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

According to the novel The English Patient, it is.

I'd say that nationalism, without a strong, free, and healthy dissent, is dangerous because eventually its logic will lead you to conflict with people who have something you want. It restricts our already severely restricted moral scopes (like race does). However, if a nation has a thriving culture of dissent, we can haggle over what we're doing.

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I'm not really talking about Trump here, but I think you're wrong in saying "most" Trump supporters don't believe it. The discussion is larger than Trump. Where do our rights come from as "citizens of the world"? A world without borders is great in theory.

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Freedom is our Strength.

PASS!!

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

In a purely academic discussion, the constitution does not create those rights, the constitution recognizes the existence of those rights

Now, we know practically that a government can restrict the enjoyment of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Chomsky came to talk to our class in grad school--it was pretty damn cool.

He is aware of that--he has to be--so he's using it to his advantage.

My quibble with Chomsky is that he is too macro. It's hard for Americans to get the moral energy going to care about the other. And vice-versa. I'm pissed that we're bombing a number of nations, but I need a friggin' job. Still, it's good to read (summaries of!) what he says, because it challenges me to get over myself.

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x 2

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I have never and will never believe that "all", nor possibly even a majority of Americans honestly believe that All men are endowed with the rights or nobility of that phrase. There is a long record that suggests that I am more accurate than you would like to admit.

We just spent 8 years with the next potus calling the current one illegitimate because of his race, hypocrisy running rampant largely (or bigly, if you will) by those now calling for "fairness " although just 10 days ago MANY of them stood shoulder to shoulder with folks calling for armed revolution and their lack of belief in the system.

I don't even have to go farther than the last 80 years of the GOP or the politics of the South/rural America, but it would be distressingly easy to do so

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

But he won the presidency twice. If what you're saying is true wouldn't that have been impossible? And for LTG, I'm not suggesting Obama's election makes America "post-racial" but I do think it illustrates that race isn't the thing necessarily driving people who are voting for the president.

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Freedom is our Strength.

He spent the last few months blowing the dog whistle, suggesting that his 2nd Amendment people should take Hillary out. Now, he is crying foul that the 1st Amendment people are targeting him.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

It's not an all-or-nothing proposition. Nationalism is typically used to describe extreme or "blind" patriotism, which is a dangerous proposition. Once someone ascribes to such a belief, any skepticism or objectivity toward their country is thrown out the window. It's what leads to ridiculous phrases like "love it or leave it" or "Manifest Destiny." One can appreciate the values the U.S. was founded on without blindly refusing to question any of them. The U.S. is far from perfect, and it certainly isn't the culmination of some divine plan unless God is a huge fan of slavery.

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I began reading a book of his about the Palestinian- Israeli conflict a few months ago. He has some interesting positions about the conflict. "MANY" would not agree with the positions that he has taken about the origins of said conflict

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It seems like you are talking about two different things. Nationalism vs. the American system/code of laws. Nationalism is more of a feeling that your nation usually meaning people sharing a similar language and culture is superior to others. It's why "Deutschland über Alles" lays claim to most of Europe. Nationalism is mostly based on feeling and emotions. It's almost a collective self-esteem and feeling of superiority over "others", and, yes, it's pretty immoral.

The Constitution is far more scientific. The creator may have "granted" us these rights, but it's more of a guiding system to an idealized society.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

the film did. the novel was beautiful.

that film was awful....but man, that chick in there was way hot.

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Fun to watch, though.

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nationalism is just fanboyism for self-described lifelong war historians.

By nationalism in this context I meant, is it moral to have the world divided up into nations?

But if we're looking at it from your perspective above, obviously, with regard to America, we all come from somewhere else, so the thread tying us together has to be shared values rather than a common ethnicity or even language. If there are no shared values, then we're not really a nation at all, but rather a bunch of people residing on the same continent.

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Freedom is our Strength.

I consider Chomsky a moral man of high ideals, but every time I hear him speak or read something he has written I am reminded of something Neil Steinberg once said, "Sometimes you have to be on your side for no other reason than it's your side."

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Freedom is our Strength.

seems sort of where we are now.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

seems like there are a couple americas.

seems like that's common in the West in this age of migration, though. (USA, UK, Deutschland, France, Scandinavia, Austraaaaaaalia, etc.)

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Extreme viewpoint 1: it's about my family. Nothing else matters. Fuck you until I have what I need.
Extreme viewpoint 1: Millennial version: I should never be offended. Fuck you for existing.
Extreme viewpoint 2: It's about the world. Your viewpoint doesn't matter if you don't support that, so fuck you.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

Why did nationalism start up in the first place? It was a response to the divine rights of kings and the ruling class. The idea that living with people of a common language and culture that leadership would care more about your values and rights. What resulted was that the wars of nations proved be be far more destructive that the wars of kings. This was mostly due to technology, but without the idea that everyone in the nation was bound together would the wars involved everyone in the nation working towards the common end of destroying their neighbor?

American nationalism is slightly different, but rather than only a common culture there is an origin story that binds people who live here. The Founding Fathers created a nation that was freer than all others and brought together the most exceptional people from across the globe. What American nationalism proves is that this is an idea rather than some primordial condition we are born with.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Apparently he is actually saying "big league," as in, "China is taking advantage of us...big league."

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Freedom is our Strength.

Nationalism is the fool's fig leaf.

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"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

God is the giver of all rights because he has created all the people in the world. Unfortunately, when God is not placed as the foundation of a society inevitably the state or the person with the most power takes over as the giver of rights to the people. All of the most free countries in the world have a history of Christianity or Judeo-Christian principles. Prior to the founding of the United States the dictator with the most pull had control over people and their rights. The founders of this country looked to God as the source of their rights rather than the state. Their country was founded on the principle that the president would not dictate religious matters to the people as the King of England did.

The problem for a lot of people in the world is that they live in countries where there has been no American Revolution and there is no Constitution or Bill of Rights that protects even people's right to worship. Not only that but a lot of people are idealistic in the thinking that they can have a truly free country without Christianity at its center. Communism sounds great until you put humans in the equation and you have dictators who are not bound by any law. You cannot found a society about atheism either because inevitably the leader of the state of the state replaces God. There is nothing in Islam, atheism, communism, socialism or any other belief system other than Christianity that has any foundation for things like equality. If people are fundamentally all made in the image of God it gives them a certain dignity that no tyrant can take away. It's very hard to say that anything is evil without the existence of God. Because if God does not exist then there is no basis for calling anything "good" or anything "evil."

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God is the uncaused cause of the universe. He had no beginning and has no end. He is not bound by the laws of the universe he created.