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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:35 am 
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A fair number of writers and progressive activists seem to think that all whites--regardless of whether or not they voted for Trump--should be blamed/held responsible for his victory. Do you agree?

Here's one example of the argument I am referencing:

Damon Young, Nation contributor wrote:
This Is What White Supremacy Looks Like

There is an understandable inclination to believe that by voting for and ultimately electing Donald Trump, white people (particularly working-class white people) voted against their own self-interests. After all, this is a man who became a billionaire by swindling and defrauding and sometimes just outright not paying people exactly like them, and there’s no real evidence that a Trump presidency will be much different for them than the Trump industry has been.

This is not particularly untrue. But it misses the point—as I did.

In this election, they (white people) did not vote against their self-interests. They may have voted against a self-interest—several self-interests, actually—but not their most important one: the preservation of white supremacy.

Retaining the value of a whiteness they believed to be increasingly devalued superseded everything else.
Including their own livelihoods; their own intellects; their own physical and financial well-beings; their own Christianity; their own consciences; their own agency; their own money; their own educations; their own employment; their own neighborhoods; their own homes; their own futures; their own children’s futures, their own country’s legacy; their own country’s status with the rest of the world; their own environment; their own food, air, and water; their own planet; their own rights; their own dignity; their own integrity; and their own lives.

And please note that I am not including any qualifiers. For working-class whites. Or whites from Rust Belt cities. Or white men. Or white people who didn’t graduate from college—or rural whites, or Midwestern whites, or Southern whites. Or whites disillusioned with Washington. Or whites who hate Clinton. Or whites who felt ignored by politicians. This is on all white people—who are complicit even if they didn’t vote for Trump.

Yes, there exists a difference between allies and racial antagonists. They are not the same. But those allies obviously haven’t done enough collectively to repudiate the mindsets existing in their families and among their friends, possessed by their co-workers and neighbors, shared during private holiday gatherings and public town-hall meetings. Millions of white voters have shown us that nothing existing on earth or in heaven or hell matters more to them than being white, and whichever privileges—real or fabricated, concrete or spiritual—existing as White in America provides.

I admit: I underestimated them. Of course, I knew of the presence of white supremacy and the appeal of perpetuating it. You cannot exist as a black person in America without at least a rudimentary and peripheral understanding of it. What I didn’t realize, however, was exactly how powerful this want to retain whiteness is.

I assumed, wrongly, that enough of them would value their own lives, their own humanity, more than the need for white supremacy to be preserved. But I failed to realize how intertwined these things are for them. There apparently is no point in even existing without existing as white. Whiteness is past an identity or status; it is their oxygen, their plasma, their connective tissue.

I’m trying very hard to find silver linings today, some source of comfort or consolation. But I cannot. Maybe I will eventually. But right now, this, the idea that white people are so possessed with clutching and cultivating and elevating white supremacy that they will endanger and outright sacrifice their own fucking lives to do so, is all I can think about. And if they feel that way about their own lives, why would they give a damn about mine?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:38 am 
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No

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:38 am 
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Sure, there was a lot of white rage. Much of it, however, was due to class and regional issues. Not all of it, but most, I'd say.

There's also lots of racial anxiety. Change is hard. Scapegoating is easy. Change is very hard.

Sloppy thinking to simply blame whites, though. That blame is part of what got Trump elected.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:46 am 
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I don't know who this guy is.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:47 am 
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Just the rubes.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:51 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
I don't know who this guy is.


Quote:
DAMON YOUNG Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com and a columnist for EBONY Magazine.


In a piece written for "The Nation" (whatever that is).


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:51 am 
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Sure. Blame all you want if it makes you fell better.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:55 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't know who this guy is.


Quote:
DAMON YOUNG Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com and a columnist for EBONY Magazine.


In a piece written for "The Nation" (whatever that is).


Everyone is a "writer for" or "contributor to" something these days. Jesse Rogers writes for ESPN. It's difficult enough to parse the legitimate from non legitimate sources these days, let alone the writers, contributors and journalists to those sources

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:58 am 
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Nas wrote:
No


Are you sure?

Because when you were slow to respond to texts over the week end I thought for sure it had something to do with Trump being elected.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:04 pm 
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Yes. We apologize.

In 2020, let's all vote Libertarian.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:08 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
No


Are you sure?

Because when you were slow to respond to texts over the week end I thought for sure it had something to do with Trump being elected.


:lol: I was probably drunk or drinking

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
No


Are you sure?

Because when you were slow to respond to texts over the week end I thought for sure it had something to do with Trump being elected.


:lol: I was probably drunk or drinking


Hours on the phone with IT types was able to give me a better understanding and insight into Brick.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
No


Are you sure?

Because when you were slow to respond to texts over the week end I thought for sure it had something to do with Trump being elected.


:lol: I was probably drunk or drinking


Hours on the phone with IT types was able to give me a better understanding and insight into Brick.


:lol: Based on one of your last texts it isn't great.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:28 pm 
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Only the deplorable ones...and the ones who didn't vote.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:31 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
No


Are you sure?

Because when you were slow to respond to texts over the week end I thought for sure it had something to do with Trump being elected.


:lol: I was probably drunk or drinking


Hours on the phone with IT types was able to give me a better understanding and insight into Brick.
If it is the same people I dealt with you have my sympathy.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:54 pm 
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instead of "blamed" I think we should go with "thanked".


#I'mwithhim

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:45 pm 
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What an article. :roll: :?

This is an undecipherable message.

Why?

Because everyone has their own unique, individual decoder ring, and nobody wants to trade jewelry with anyone else.

Blame the white man for being white. Blame the dog for barking. Blame the sky for the rain.

. . . without stopping to appreciate the virtue of things.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:03 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't know who this guy is.


Quote:
DAMON YOUNG Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com and a columnist for EBONY Magazine.


In a piece written for "The Nation" (whatever that is).


Everyone is a "writer for" or "contributor to" something these days. Jesse Rogers writes for ESPN. It's difficult enough to parse the legitimate from non legitimate sources these days, let alone the writers, contributors and journalists to those sources


It is ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:08 pm 
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Tad Queasy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't know who this guy is.


Quote:
DAMON YOUNG Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com and a columnist for EBONY Magazine.


In a piece written for "The Nation" (whatever that is).


Everyone is a "writer for" or "contributor to" something these days. Jesse Rogers writes for ESPN. It's difficult enough to parse the legitimate from non legitimate sources these days, let alone the writers, contributors and journalists to those sources


It is ridiculous.


I think we all could add "CFMB Digital Contributor" to our resumes and not raise an eyebrow.

Hell, look at the stable of "writers" for The Cauldron: https://thecauldron.si.com/about


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:01 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't know who this guy is.


Quote:
DAMON YOUNG Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com and a columnist for EBONY Magazine.


In a piece written for "The Nation" (whatever that is).


An obviously well-read person like you dosn't know what The Nation is? Really? I'm surprised. It's the country's oldest progressive publication, one that dates back to the mid-19th century. Historically it has embraced a liberal-left class politics, but over the past couple of years it has increasingly advocated a progressive vision based on identity politics. I referenced the editorial above precisely because of its publication in The Nation, as the column's appearance there confirms the hegemonic status of what I think is an obtusely rigid and superficial version of progressivism that will ensure further electoral defeats for the Democratic party.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:58 pm 
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No. Whoever wrote that article can go fuck himself. It's ok though, keep blaming white people for everything. Worked out great this election. Fucking idiot.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:01 pm 
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Can we blame white people for Madigan too?
Then I'm fine with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:38 pm 
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Just the Bernie Backers, because we all know every one of them was white & male.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:45 pm 
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No. But all feminists could be blamed. They really helped Trump. A Malelash, if you will.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:50 pm 
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Kill Whitey!

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:14 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't know who this guy is.


Quote:
DAMON YOUNG Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com and a columnist for EBONY Magazine.


In a piece written for "The Nation" (whatever that is).


An obviously well-read person like you dosn't know what The Nation is? Really? I'm surprised. It's the country's oldest progressive publication, one that dates back to the mid-19th century. Historically it has embraced a liberal-left class politics, but over the past couple of years it has increasingly advocated a progressive vision based on identity politics. I referenced the editorial above precisely because of its publication in The Nation, as the column's appearance there confirms the hegemonic status of what I think is an obtusely rigid and superficial version of progressivism that will ensure further electoral defeats for the Democratic party.



In a nutshell they are a component in the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic Party. They were huge supporters of his movement and as Midget opined their continued influence will virtually insure the further electoral defeat of the Democratic Party. Bring on the liberal left Progressives in 2020 and watch and see how the country "embraces" them. Liz Warren come on down. I have watched that crowd lose election after election since 1980.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:30 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I don't know who this guy is.


Quote:
DAMON YOUNG Damon Young is the editor-in-chief of VSB. He is also a contributing editor for EBONY.com and a columnist for EBONY Magazine.


In a piece written for "The Nation" (whatever that is).


An obviously well-read person like you dosn't know what The Nation is? Really? I'm surprised. It's the country's oldest progressive publication, one that dates back to the mid-19th century. Historically it has embraced a liberal-left class politics, but over the past couple of years it has increasingly advocated a progressive vision based on identity politics. I referenced the editorial above precisely because of its publication in The Nation, as the column's appearance there confirms the hegemonic status of what I think is an obtusely rigid and superficial version of progressivism that will ensure further electoral defeats for the Democratic party.



In a nutshell they are a component in the Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic Party. They were huge supporters of his movement and as Midget opined their continued influence will virtually insure the further electoral defeat of the Democratic Party. Bring on the liberal left Progressives in 2020 and watch and see how the country "embraces" them. Liz Warren come on down. I have watched that crowd lose election after election since 1980.


If you really want to see Clinton-esque platforms win on election day then you should vote for Paul Ryan or the next iteration of Mitt Romney in 2020. Except for a few issues im sure you'll like what you see.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:41 pm 
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A few days ago I would have said no but I'll go with yes. We're all horribly racist and need to accept blame. Let's move on.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:44 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
We're all horribly racist .


No

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:52 pm 
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Can you fake it so we can end the discussion? I understand things will come up but I don't want this to become the Trump message board.


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