It is currently Mon Feb 24, 2025 2:00 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1190 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 ... 40  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948
George Wallace also garnered a lot of working class white support too.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
This is going to reach a head pretty soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 33244
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
long time guy wrote:
George Wallace also garnered a lot of working class white support too.


Not enough to win, and there were a lot more of those folks back then.

That is my point- take Wisconsin, which has been largely blue. Those same "racists" were there when Democrats were winning. Did they just become racists because Trump won?

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948
denisdman wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
long time guy wrote:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/11/how-white-power-went-viral/507473/


LTG, I don't want to speak for all rural people like that guy who was on Bill Maher Friday, but have you ever driven south of I-80 or West of DeKalb and had conversations with some of the people out there? Ever mentioned the name Hillary Clinton in their presence?


It makes you wonder, if racists in IA, WI, PA, and MI are the reason Trump won, where were these racists when Democrats were consistently winning those states?



In statewide elections they hadn't been.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
This is going to reach a head pretty soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:10 am
Posts: 31948
denisdman wrote:
long time guy wrote:
George Wallace also garnered a lot of working class white support too.


Not enough to win, and there were a lot more of those folks back then.

That is my point- take Wisconsin, which has been largely blue. Those same "racists" were there when Democrats were winning. Did they just become racists because Trump won?



This argument is conveniently being conflated to suggest that 50 million racists bigots voted for Trump. That is not my argument. The mere fact that his racism wasn't enough to disqualify him suggests quite a bit. The crazy thing about it is that there was so much other shit out on him which should have been disqualifiers yet we are to believe that "economic angst" and economic angst alone propelled him to victory. Please.

_________________
The Hawk wrote:
This is going to reach a head pretty soon.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
Tall Midget wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
It was over in the Trump thread. Here's the full article.

Quote:
For months, the only thing that’s surprised me about Donald Trump is my friends’ astonishment at his success. What’s driving it is the class culture gap.

One little-known element of that gap is that the white working class (WWC) resents professionals but admires the rich. Class migrants (white-collar professionals born to blue-collar families) report that “professional people were generally suspect” and that managers are college kids “who don’t know shit about how to do anything but are full of ideas about how I have to do my job,” said Alfred Lubrano in Limbo. Barbara Ehrenreich recalled in 1990 that her blue-collar dad “could not say the word doctor without the virtual prefix quack. Lawyers were shysters…and professors were without exception phonies.” Annette Lareau found tremendous resentment against teachers, who were perceived as condescending and unhelpful.

Michèle Lamont, in The Dignity of Working Men, also found resentment of professionals — but not of the rich. “ can’t knock anyone for succeeding,” a laborer told her. “There’s a lot of people out there who are wealthy and I’m sure they worked darned hard for every cent they have,” chimed in a receiving clerk. Why the difference? For one thing, most blue-collar workers have little direct contact with the rich outside of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. But professionals order them around every day. The dream is not to become upper-middle-class, with its different food, family, and friendship patterns; the dream is to live in your own class milieu, where you feel comfortable — just with more money. “The main thing is to be independent and give your own orders and not have to take them from anybody else,” a machine operator told Lamont. Owning one’s own business — that’s the goal. That’s another part of Trump’s appeal.

Hillary Clinton, by contrast, epitomizes the dorky arrogance and smugness of the professional elite. The dorkiness: the pantsuits. The arrogance: the email server. The smugness: the basket of deplorables. Worse, her mere presence rubs it in that even women from her class can treat working-class men with disrespect. Look at how she condescends to Trump as unfit to hold the office of the presidency and dismisses his supporters as racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic.

Trump’s blunt talk taps into another blue-collar value: straight talk. “Directness is a working-class norm,” notes Lubrano. As one blue-collar guy told him, “If you have a problem with me, come talk to me. If you have a way you want something done, come talk to me. I don’t like people who play these two-faced games.” Straight talk is seen as requiring manly courage, not being “a total wuss and a wimp,” an electronics technician told Lamont. Of course Trump appeals. Clinton’s clunky admission that she talks one way in public and another in private? Further proof she’s a two-faced phony.

Manly dignity is a big deal for working-class men, and they’re not feeling that they have it. Trump promises a world free of political correctness and a return to an earlier era, when men were men and women knew their place. It’s comfort food for high-school-educated guys who could have been my father-in-law if they’d been born 30 years earlier. Today they feel like losers — or did until they met Trump.


Obligatory disclaimer: we all know full well that Trump is full of shit and that analyzing why Clinton lost is not an endorsement of his wrongness.


It's not just a question of culture--it's also a matter of raw political, occupational and economic power.

The Democrats have largely been the party of the professional-managerial class, not the working class, since the late 1970s/early 1980s, the point at which the rapidly expanding PMC became roughly 1/3 of the electorate. "New Democrats" like Clinton thought they were safe in championing a PMC agenda (neoliberal economics, marginalization of urban issues in favor of suburbia, political correctness, etc) because the working class "had nowhere else to go," providing the party with a multi-class coalition that would be difficult to overcome at the national level. But the Democrats' increasingly conservative economic policies eventually forced many working class voters to elect Republicans on the basis of social issues. Now Trump's right-wing economic populism may have finally exploded our frayed political paradigms, definitively providing white working class voters with a new and seemingly permanent ideological home. It's no coincidence that Clinton won only the counties/states considered to be epicenters for the PMC. And it's certainly no coincidence that Trump won almost exclusively in areas where the population is definitively non-PMC.


I like that you highlighted that they were forced out of the Democratic party more than they were courted properly by Trump. Still, I think the understanding of economics is overstated by many. I don't think many working class people are real familiar with neoliberal economic policies or NAFTA (how's that for elitist?). At most, some of them probably simply realize that their economic fortune hasn't gotten any better with a Democratic executive branch. I'm sure Hillary pushed many out because of this realization, but I think far more just didn't like her as an individual (and justifiably so) and felt they had no alternative other than Trump (which is also true - just a matter of how much they hated Hillary).


Tidal shifts in economic policy--such as NAFTA's advocacy by Clinton--definitely changes votes. This is a quantifiable fact. Such a change, though, can become codified culturally--over multiple years/election cycles--to such an extent that the support for a given party is no longer explained/discussed/referenced in terms of the causal economic force, but in a kind of idiomatic political shorthand, as described in the excerpt quoted by CH.


Of course. My contention is a very specific one. I don't believe a majority of working class voters voted in this election for Donald Trump because they are opponents of free trade. I'm sure some did, and probably a larger percentage of more educated voters did. I do think we are underestimating how many voters:
a) just voted for Trump because they haven't individually seen any economic opportunity during Democratic administrations (without specifically yearning for protectionist policies), or...
b) voted for Trump because they [i]hate Hillary Clinton.

I could be wrong, but that's the feeling I get (just how I feel ;)) in my interactions with the rural people I talk to, grew up around, and call family. And most of them live in areas that underperformed for HRC. This is, of course, just anecdotal observation, but I think many urban dwellers don't truly understand the vitriolic hatred for Clinton in rural areas. Whether everything they believe is justified or not, they absolutely despise her and often state they wish she was dead.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:31 pm 
Offline
1000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:55 pm
Posts: 29461
pizza_Place: Zaffiro's
leashyourkids wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
It was over in the Trump thread. Here's the full article.

Quote:
For months, the only thing that’s surprised me about Donald Trump is my friends’ astonishment at his success. What’s driving it is the class culture gap.

One little-known element of that gap is that the white working class (WWC) resents professionals but admires the rich. Class migrants (white-collar professionals born to blue-collar families) report that “professional people were generally suspect” and that managers are college kids “who don’t know shit about how to do anything but are full of ideas about how I have to do my job,” said Alfred Lubrano in Limbo. Barbara Ehrenreich recalled in 1990 that her blue-collar dad “could not say the word doctor without the virtual prefix quack. Lawyers were shysters…and professors were without exception phonies.” Annette Lareau found tremendous resentment against teachers, who were perceived as condescending and unhelpful.

Michèle Lamont, in The Dignity of Working Men, also found resentment of professionals — but not of the rich. “ can’t knock anyone for succeeding,” a laborer told her. “There’s a lot of people out there who are wealthy and I’m sure they worked darned hard for every cent they have,” chimed in a receiving clerk. Why the difference? For one thing, most blue-collar workers have little direct contact with the rich outside of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. But professionals order them around every day. The dream is not to become upper-middle-class, with its different food, family, and friendship patterns; the dream is to live in your own class milieu, where you feel comfortable — just with more money. “The main thing is to be independent and give your own orders and not have to take them from anybody else,” a machine operator told Lamont. Owning one’s own business — that’s the goal. That’s another part of Trump’s appeal.

Hillary Clinton, by contrast, epitomizes the dorky arrogance and smugness of the professional elite. The dorkiness: the pantsuits. The arrogance: the email server. The smugness: the basket of deplorables. Worse, her mere presence rubs it in that even women from her class can treat working-class men with disrespect. Look at how she condescends to Trump as unfit to hold the office of the presidency and dismisses his supporters as racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic.

Trump’s blunt talk taps into another blue-collar value: straight talk. “Directness is a working-class norm,” notes Lubrano. As one blue-collar guy told him, “If you have a problem with me, come talk to me. If you have a way you want something done, come talk to me. I don’t like people who play these two-faced games.” Straight talk is seen as requiring manly courage, not being “a total wuss and a wimp,” an electronics technician told Lamont. Of course Trump appeals. Clinton’s clunky admission that she talks one way in public and another in private? Further proof she’s a two-faced phony.

Manly dignity is a big deal for working-class men, and they’re not feeling that they have it. Trump promises a world free of political correctness and a return to an earlier era, when men were men and women knew their place. It’s comfort food for high-school-educated guys who could have been my father-in-law if they’d been born 30 years earlier. Today they feel like losers — or did until they met Trump.


Obligatory disclaimer: we all know full well that Trump is full of shit and that analyzing why Clinton lost is not an endorsement of his wrongness.


It's not just a question of culture--it's also a matter of raw political, occupational and economic power.

The Democrats have largely been the party of the professional-managerial class, not the working class, since the late 1970s/early 1980s, the point at which the rapidly expanding PMC became roughly 1/3 of the electorate. "New Democrats" like Clinton thought they were safe in championing a PMC agenda (neoliberal economics, marginalization of urban issues in favor of suburbia, political correctness, etc) because the working class "had nowhere else to go," providing the party with a multi-class coalition that would be difficult to overcome at the national level. But the Democrats' increasingly conservative economic policies eventually forced many working class voters to elect Republicans on the basis of social issues. Now Trump's right-wing economic populism may have finally exploded our frayed political paradigms, definitively providing white working class voters with a new and seemingly permanent ideological home. It's no coincidence that Clinton won only the counties/states considered to be epicenters for the PMC. And it's certainly no coincidence that Trump won almost exclusively in areas where the population is definitively non-PMC.



I like that you highlighted that they were forced out of the Democratic party more than they were courted properly by Trump. Still, I think the understanding of economics is overstated by many. I don't think many working class people are real familiar with neoliberal economic policies or NAFTA (how's that for elitist?). At most, some of them probably simply realize that their economic fortune hasn't gotten any better with a Democratic executive branch. I'm sure Hillary pushed many out because of this realization, but I think far more just didn't like her as an individual (and justifiably so) and felt they had no alternative other than Trump (which is also true - just a matter of how much they hated Hillary).


Tidal shifts in economic policy--such as NAFTA's advocacy by Clinton--definitely changes votes. This is a quantifiable fact. Such a change, though, can become codified culturally--over multiple years/election cycles--to such an extent that the support for a given party is no longer explained/discussed/referenced in terms of the causal economic force, but in a kind of idiomatic political shorthand, as described in the excerpt quoted by CH.


Of course. My contention is a very specific one. I don't believe a majority of working class voters voted in this election for Donald Trump because they are opponents of free trade. I'm sure some did, and probably a larger percentage of more educated voters did. I do think we are underestimating how many voters:
a) just voted for Trump because they haven't individually seen any economic opportunity during Democratic administrations (without specifically yearning for protectionist policies), or...
b) voted for Trump because they [i]hate Hillary Clinton.

I could be wrong, but that's the feeling I get (just how I feel ;)) in my interactions with the rural people I talk to, grew up around, and call family. And most of them live in areas that underperformed for HRC. This is, of course, just anecdotal observation, but I think many urban dwellers don't truly understand the vitriolic hatred for Clinton in rural areas. Whether everything they believe is justified or not, they absolutely despise her and often state they wish she was dead.


In my opinion, a lot of this goes back to Michael Moore's description of the general campaign dynamics: The white working class saw Trump as a Molotov Cocktail it could use to destroy an economic system--championed by both parties--that has made their lives miserable.

_________________
Antonio Gramsci wrote:
The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80560
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
long time guy wrote:
The mere fact that his racism wasn't enough to disqualify him suggests quite a bit.


Yes, that many people would rather have an unapologetically racist president than Hillary Clinton.

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
@ TM

Yes. That's a very apt description.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
In all my work with local elections, we constantly would say "Signs don't vote." I kept seeing nothing but Trump signs and I live in the democrat part of Indiana. I kept blowing it off and thinking signs don't vote... It was wrong this time.

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 38943
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
The mere fact that his racism wasn't enough to disqualify him suggests quite a bit.


Yes, that many people would rather have an unapologetically racist president than Hillary Clinton.

David Duke should've run.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 33244
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
leashyourkids wrote:
@ TM

Yes. That's a very apt description.


TM, bringing it today, fire and passion dare I say.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:43 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Hank Scorpio wrote:
In all my work with local elections, we constantly would say "Signs don't vote." I kept seeing nothing but Trump signs and I live in the democrat part of Indiana. I kept blowing it off and thinking signs don't vote... It was wrong this time.


It was worse than that. Outside of coming here I rarely heard someone praise Hillary. In 2007-08 there were people lined up trying to tell me how great Hillary was.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:56 am
Posts: 32234
Location: A sterile, homogeneous suburb
pizza_Place: Pizza Cucina
denisdman wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
@ TM

Yes. That's a very apt description.


TM, bringing it today, fire and passion dare I say.


Definitely better than usual.

_________________
Curious Hair wrote:
I'm a big dumb shitlib baby


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:13 am
Posts: 17583
Location: BLM Lake Forest Chapter
pizza_Place: Quonset
Nas wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
In all my work with local elections, we constantly would say "Signs don't vote." I kept seeing nothing but Trump signs and I live in the democrat part of Indiana. I kept blowing it off and thinking signs don't vote... It was wrong this time.


It was worse than that. Outside of coming here I rarely heard someone praise Hillary. In 2007-08 there were people lined up trying to tell me how great Hillary was.


I found it strange how suddenly it became cool to hate on Hillary.

_________________
Don Tiny wrote:
Don't be such a fucking chump.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 33244
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
long time guy wrote:
denisdman wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
long time guy wrote:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/11/how-white-power-went-viral/507473/


LTG, I don't want to speak for all rural people like that guy who was on Bill Maher Friday, but have you ever driven south of I-80 or West of DeKalb and had conversations with some of the people out there? Ever mentioned the name Hillary Clinton in their presence?


It makes you wonder, if racists in IA, WI, PA, and MI are the reason Trump won, where were these racists when Democrats were consistently winning those states?



In statewide elections they hadn't been.


Good point, statewide races had been trending Red for some time. I was referring to Presidential elections in these so called firewall states. I actually thought Romney was going to break through given his ties to Michigan.

Of all the stuff I have heard, TM's reasons make the most sense.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 33244
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
GoldenJet wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
In all my work with local elections, we constantly would say "Signs don't vote." I kept seeing nothing but Trump signs and I live in the democrat part of Indiana. I kept blowing it off and thinking signs don't vote... It was wrong this time.


It was worse than that. Outside of coming here I rarely heard someone praise Hillary. In 2007-08 there were people lined up trying to tell me how great Hillary was.


I found it strange how suddenly it became cool to hate on Hillary.


Misogyny is the new Black.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 42094
Location: Rock Ridge (splendid!)
pizza_Place: Charlie Fox's / Paisano's
long time guy wrote:
George Wallace also garnered a lot of working class white support too.

Image

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:05 am
Posts: 28664
pizza_Place: Clamburger's
I just want to know if LTG has spent time outside of greater Chicago.

_________________
Nardi wrote:
Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:52 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
GoldenJet wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
In all my work with local elections, we constantly would say "Signs don't vote." I kept seeing nothing but Trump signs and I live in the democrat part of Indiana. I kept blowing it off and thinking signs don't vote... It was wrong this time.


It was worse than that. Outside of coming here I rarely heard someone praise Hillary. In 2007-08 there were people lined up trying to tell me how great Hillary was.


I found it strange how suddenly it became cool to hate on Hillary.


It was really weird. Women who cried in 2008 suddenly thought she was the devil.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:54 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
denisdman wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
In all my work with local elections, we constantly would say "Signs don't vote." I kept seeing nothing but Trump signs and I live in the democrat part of Indiana. I kept blowing it off and thinking signs don't vote... It was wrong this time.


It was worse than that. Outside of coming here I rarely heard someone praise Hillary. In 2007-08 there were people lined up trying to tell me how great Hillary was.


I found it strange how suddenly it became cool to hate on Hillary.


Misogyny is the new Black.


MANY people believe that I am joking but I think it's worse. MANY women don't even believe that a woman should be president. I was shocked when I started hearing this.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:22 am
Posts: 15198
pizza_Place: Wha Happen?
denisdman wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
In all my work with local elections, we constantly would say "Signs don't vote." I kept seeing nothing but Trump signs and I live in the democrat part of Indiana. I kept blowing it off and thinking signs don't vote... It was wrong this time.


It was worse than that. Outside of coming here I rarely heard someone praise Hillary. In 2007-08 there were people lined up trying to tell me how great Hillary was.


I found it strange how suddenly it became cool to hate on Hillary.


Misogyny is the new Black.

I wish it were as simple as that. I still think Warren would have defeated Trump. Clinton was disliked for a lot of reasons, being a woman was a small one indeed.

And in terms of racism electing Trump, I don't think that's the majority of why he got elected. Otherwise you have to ignore Obama's results. Why didn't white america, the majority, rise up and not allow him into office? Did racists take a day off the last two elections?

And Nas needs new friends and acquaintances. I attended a southern baptist church in the south a month ago. the pastor said this: don't withhold your vote from Hillary because she's a woman. Withhold your vote because every child is precious. Direct quote.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 40942
Location: Everywhere
pizza_Place: giordanos
Jbi11s wrote:
I just want to know if LTG has spent time outside of greater Chicago.


Idk about that but this thread reads better with opinions besides its racism. Regardless of your feelings of what percentage racism played a pet clearly there are many factors. Just read the last couple hours of posts.

_________________
Elections have consequences.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:22 am
Posts: 15198
pizza_Place: Wha Happen?
denisdman wrote:
long time guy wrote:
denisdman wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
long time guy wrote:
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/11/how-white-power-went-viral/507473/


LTG, I don't want to speak for all rural people like that guy who was on Bill Maher Friday, but have you ever driven south of I-80 or West of DeKalb and had conversations with some of the people out there? Ever mentioned the name Hillary Clinton in their presence?


It makes you wonder, if racists in IA, WI, PA, and MI are the reason Trump won, where were these racists when Democrats were consistently winning those states?



In statewide elections they hadn't been.


Good point, statewide races had been trending Red for some time. I was referring to Presidential elections in these so called firewall states. I actually thought Romney was going to break through given his ties to Michigan.

Of all the stuff I have heard, TM's reasons make the most sense.

it does. Nothing else really holds up.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:00 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
What percentage of racist voters do people believe backed Trump? 1%? 10%

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:02 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 80560
Location: Rogers Park, USA
pizza_Place: JB Alberto's
Nas wrote:
denisdman wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
In all my work with local elections, we constantly would say "Signs don't vote." I kept seeing nothing but Trump signs and I live in the democrat part of Indiana. I kept blowing it off and thinking signs don't vote... It was wrong this time.


It was worse than that. Outside of coming here I rarely heard someone praise Hillary. In 2007-08 there were people lined up trying to tell me how great Hillary was.


I found it strange how suddenly it became cool to hate on Hillary.


Misogyny is the new Black.


MANY people believe that I am joking but I think it's worse. MANY women don't even believe that a woman should be president. I was shocked when I started hearing this.


MANY women didn't think Hillary Clinton should be president. Why are you conflating a single bad candidate with womanhood?

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 40942
Location: Everywhere
pizza_Place: giordanos
Nas wrote:
What percentage of racist voters do people believe backed Trump? 1%? 10%


No idea but I'll take a number small enough to make LTG wrong. How many racists from the CPD and CFD vote democrat without even thinking?

_________________
Elections have consequences.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:22 am
Posts: 15198
pizza_Place: Wha Happen?
Nas wrote:
What percentage of racist voters do people believe backed Trump? 1%? 10%

I'll have to ask them, I guess. I'll be back in a few weeks.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:22 am
Posts: 15198
pizza_Place: Wha Happen?
btw, this alt right stuff with Trump is silliness. He's more of a true democrat than Hillary. There's going to be a lot of disappointed racist republicans.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
The most racist person that I know voted for Obama twice and then Hillary. Politics makes people do strange things.

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:07 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
denisdman wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
Nas wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
In all my work with local elections, we constantly would say "Signs don't vote." I kept seeing nothing but Trump signs and I live in the democrat part of Indiana. I kept blowing it off and thinking signs don't vote... It was wrong this time.


It was worse than that. Outside of coming here I rarely heard someone praise Hillary. In 2007-08 there were people lined up trying to tell me how great Hillary was.


I found it strange how suddenly it became cool to hate on Hillary.


Misogyny is the new Black.


MANY people believe that I am joking but I think it's worse. MANY women don't even believe that a woman should be president. I was shocked when I started hearing this.


MANY women didn't think Hillary Clinton should be president. Why are you conflating a single bad candidate with womanhood?


MANY women believed that she shouldn't be president because she has a vagina.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1190 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 ... 40  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group