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badrogue17
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:44 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
bottom right is really good

So realistic it almost makes me want to vote for her.

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RFDC
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:48 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
bottom right is really good

So realistic it almost makes me want to vomit

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veganfan21
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:51 pm 
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Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
For what it's worth I don't think you can attribute Trump's win to racism. This was an electorate ready to vote for an outsider or a pseudo outsider and Clinton was neither. Bernie was/is.

This is a country that elected Obama twice, as others have pointed out numerous times. That being said, I take it as given that racists are attracted to Trump more to than to Bernie or Clinton. Trump leveraged that attention. While racism is not limited to one party I also take it as a given, as the study provided earlier shows, and as RR has repeatedly pointed out in various threads, that politically active/engaged racists adopt right wing views that often align more with Republican positions than the positions of other major parties. Sort of a not every Trump supporter is a racist, but many racists are Trump supporters kind of thing.


I don't personally agree with it, but I don't think it is outrageous to say that an election that Hillary lost by 100k votes (in 3 states combined) was decided by the 5% (3 million) of Trump voters who are racist.


It's on Hillary to explain why she failed to meet or exceed Obama's votes in the regions you cited. Fact is blue states turned red during her campaign. She couldn't overcome her own baggage. As leash said, anti Hillary hate is strong. Not all of it is reasonable (misogyny, fake Breitbart stories and other things spread on social media), but on the other hand anti Hillary people didn't come up with emails and wall street connections on their own.

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312player
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:23 am 
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Bernie won Michigan and Minnesota, he was close in Ohio and Pennsylvania and he was cheated every step of the way..he beat her in the debates while she had the questions beforehand.. Bernie destroyed Trump in the head to head polls while Clinton was always neck n neck.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:28 am 
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312player wrote:
Bernie won Michigan and Minnesota, he was close in Ohio and Pennsylvania and he was cheated every step of the way..he beat her in the debates while she had the questions beforehand.. Bernie destroyed Trump in the head to head polls while Clinton was always neck n neck.
The Blue Jays would have beaten the Cubs.

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Frank Coztansa
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:48 am 
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Nas wrote:
I don't personally agree with it, but I don't think it is outrageous to say that an election that Hillary lost by 100k votes (in 3 states combined) was decided by the 5% (3 million) of Trump voters who are racist.
It is incredibly outrageous to believe this is the case. Instead of pointing the finger at others, point the finger at your own candidate. She failed, and that is the reason why she lost.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:52 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nas wrote:
I don't personally agree with it, but I don't think it is outrageous to say that an election that Hillary lost by 100k votes (in 3 states combined) was decided by the 5% (3 million) of Trump voters who are racist.
It is incredibly outrageous to believe this is the case. Instead of pointing the finger at others, point the finger at your own candidate. She failed, and that is the reason why she lost.
It is. There were probably 3 million people with red hair that voted for Trump too. That doesn't mean that people with red hair are the reason he won.

The fact that Nas continues to ignore is that Hillary LOST people in pretty much every demographic from what Obama had.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:59 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nas wrote:
I don't personally agree with it, but I don't think it is outrageous to say that an election that Hillary lost by 100k votes (in 3 states combined) was decided by the 5% (3 million) of Trump voters who are racist.
It is incredibly outrageous to believe this is the case. Instead of pointing the finger at others, point the finger at your own candidate. She failed, and that is the reason why she lost.
It is. There were probably 3 million people with red hair that voted for Trump too. That doesn't mean that people with red hair are the reason he won.

The fact that Nas continues to ignore is that Hillary LOST people in pretty much every demographic from what Obama had.


You could make that argument too. Considering she lost those states by a combined total of 100k votes.

I'm not ignoring anything. I've literally blamed her loss on the fact that Obama/Bernie voters stayed home. You're the guy running around shouting down anyone who says racism or misogyny played any role in the election and that's wrong.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:02 am 
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Nas wrote:
You're the guy running around shouting down anyone who says racism or misogyny played any role in the election and that's wrong.
I wouldn't say I'm shouting it down. I'm just saying the numbers really don't tell that story.

30% of all Latinos and 54% of white women voted for Trump. The demographics of almost all minorities and women voted at a higher percentage for Trump than they did for Romney. In fact, a strong argument could be made that most voters, even among those who were "targets" didn't consider this race about racism or misogyny.

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Frank Coztansa
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:10 am 
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Nas you just said that you don't think its outrageous to say that racists won Trump the election. They probably had an effect, but I don't believe that they won or lost anything.

Also, wouldn't you think that a lot of those same racists voted against Obama just because? That is even more reason to blame Hillary.

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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:33 am 
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Maybe Brick has the numbers as he has mentioned demos quite a bit but I am too lazy. Anyway, the numbers I do recall for Obama essentially called Black turnout for him historic or higher than ever. Also, he garnered some outrageous percentage of that vote 98%? Completely understandable.

So if Black turnout was lower as there wasn't the historic component of Obama running and no way in hell HRC would get 98% of what there was is it hard to understand? There was a racial component in the last two elections understandably. The motivation to try to duplicate that for HRC was not there for what I guess are many reasons.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:41 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Nas you just said that you don't think its outrageous to say that racists won Trump the election. They probably had an effect, but I don't believe that they won or lost anything.

Also, wouldn't you think that a lot of those same racists voted against Obama just because? That is even more reason to blame Hillary.


She lost 3 states by a combined total of 100k votes. Being a Cubs fan could factored in. We are talking about. 002% of his voters.

Some may have voted for Obama. Trump brought millions of new voters into the process and that played a role in him winning some states.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:42 am 
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Hillary, a white woman, had 54% of white women vote for Trump. That really should be the beginning and end of any discussion about demographics and why Hillary lost.

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312player
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:43 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hillary, a white woman, had 54% of white women vote for Trump. That really should be the beginning and end of any discussion about demographics and why Hillary lost.





Agreed

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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:46 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hillary, a white woman, had 54% of white women vote for Trump. That really should be the beginning and end of any discussion about demographics and why Hillary lost.


Take is a little further. She absolutely counted on getting historic percentages of the woman vote. She based her campaign on it.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:48 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Nas wrote:
You're the guy running around shouting down anyone who says racism or misogyny played any role in the election and that's wrong.
I wouldn't say I'm shouting it down. I'm just saying the numbers really don't tell that story.

30% of all Latinos and 54% of white women voted for Trump. The demographics of almost all minorities and women voted at a higher percentage for Trump than they did for Romney. In fact, a strong argument could be made that most voters, even among those who were "targets" didn't consider this race about racism or misogyny.


You're looking at Exit Polls and I'm talking about the actual votes in the states. There are MANY reasons why she came up a combined 100k votes short. Saying racism and misogyny can't be a reason is wrong.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:48 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hillary, a white woman, had 54% of white women vote for Trump. That really should be the beginning and end of any discussion about demographics and why Hillary lost.


Higher percentage than Obama.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:17 am 
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How can anyone explain this?

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/p ... ama-muslim

Or this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... rst-place/

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JORR
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:21 am 
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long time guy wrote:
How can anyone explain this?

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/p ... ama-muslim

Or this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... rst-place/



More bad polling.

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veganfan21
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:28 am 
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long time guy wrote:
How can anyone explain this?

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/p ... ama-muslim

Or this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... rst-place/


Dude the following things can be true at the same time: Clinton failed and some Trump supporters voted Trump because they liked a racist platform.

Racism and Trump's campaign has been covered many times. Here's one example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html

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312player
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:29 am 
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long time guy wrote:
How can anyone explain this?

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/p ... ama-muslim

Or this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... rst-place/







Hillary started that movement, no? ..


It's not surprising, 70% of Americans thought Saddam was behind 911, when polled in 2004.

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veganfan21
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:31 am 
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Plus LTG should check this video out: http://www.cnn.com/videos/opinions/2016 ... l-pictures

Tell us this family is racist. I think some of their anti Clinton stuff is informed by paranoia spread by the likes of Alex Jones types, making them a bit misinformed and gullible, but other anti Clinton stuff is shared by even Democrats.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:46 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
How can anyone explain this?

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/p ... ama-muslim

Or this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... rst-place/


Dude the following things can be true at the same time: Clinton failed and some Trump supporters voted Trump because they liked a racist platform.

Racism and Trump's campaign has been covered many times. Here's one example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... story.html




This is not a "one size fits all shoe model" thing and as long as people keep looking at it that way then they are missing the point. Sure a lot people don't like Hillary. That doesn't make her all that unique as a political figure by the way. As beloved as people think Obama was around here this movement was started as a way to counter him.


Also I knew it wouldn't take long before someone linked this to Hillary. These articles dont reference her in the least. This is about Trump and where his supporters can be found. That point needs to be addressed.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:49 am 
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312player wrote:
long time guy wrote:
How can anyone explain this?

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/p ... ama-muslim

Or this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... rst-place/







Hillary started that movement, no? ..


It's not surprising, 70% of Americans thought Saddam was behind 911, when polled in 2004.



She didn't start the birther movement. Trump did


And among this group you would have found people talking about the election being rigged had Trump lost.

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:52 am 
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long time guy wrote:
She didn't start the birther movement. Trump did
How many articles do you need to see that Hillary supporters are the first ones who mentioned it?

Trump certainly took over at some point but what you say is factually incorrect.

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312player
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:52 am 
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That CNN link has her all over it, she's quoted at least half a dozen times..her last quote was something along the lines of Trump going from an ordinary reality TV star to famous after the birther movement.. I believe she herself started that birthed movement in 07 when she campaigned against him.

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Hatchetman
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:53 am 
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long time guy wrote:
[

She didn't start the birther movement. Trump did

.


technically speaking Trump did not start it, though it depends on what you mean as start.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... blumenthal

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't start the birther movement. Trump did
How many articles do you need to see that Hillary supporters are the first ones who mentioned it?

Trump certainly took over at some point but what you say is factually incorrect.



Do you really want to have a battle of birther articles? you'd lose rather convincingly

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Brick
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 10:57 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't start the birther movement. Trump did
How many articles do you need to see that Hillary supporters are the first ones who mentioned it?

Trump certainly took over at some point but what you say is factually incorrect.



Do you really want to have a battle of birther articles? you'd lose rather convincingly
Yes. Hatchetman already posted one. Find one that says that Trump started it.

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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:05 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
long time guy wrote:
[

She didn't start the birther movement. Trump did

.


technically speaking Trump did not start it, though it depends on what you mean as start.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... blumenthal


Hatchet's article seems legit. LTG must be tired. He has to be. It must be very exhausting to look at facts like the article and insist Trump started it. It must be even more tiring to come here day after day and read any number of various reasons people voted for Trump or her royal highness and still just type racism, racism, racism.

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