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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:18 am 
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Maybe Phil should have come with a response that was something to the effect of: "LeBron's posse is much more sophisticated than Derrick Rose's posse."

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:42 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But the way he used it, I fully understand why LeBron took offense.


I see what you're saying, but that appeared to be Phil's intent: to be dismissive. He could have used a more neutral or favorable term (agent, business partner), and he could have said worse (sycophant, acolyte), but it was certainly meant as a dig or tweak. But not a racist dig in my opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:51 am 
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The word "racist" has lost its meaning.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:57 am 
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Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The word "racist" has lost its meaning.

Lost its meaning? No.

Losing its impact? You might have a fair case to make with that.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:02 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But the way he used it, I fully understand why LeBron took offense.


I see what you're saying, but that appeared to be Phil's intent: to be dismissive. He could have used a more neutral or favorable term (agent, business partner), and he could have said worse (sycophant, acolyte), but it was certainly meant as a dig or tweak. But not a racist dig in my opinion.

I can agree with that.

"Lackey" or "Toady" probably would have been a better term.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:18 pm 
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Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The word "racist" has lost its meaning.


Spoken like someone who's never experienced it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:22 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But the way he used it, I fully understand why LeBron took offense.


I see what you're saying, but that appeared to be Phil's intent: to be dismissive. He could have used a more neutral or favorable term (agent, business partner), and he could have said worse (sycophant, acolyte), but it was certainly meant as a dig or tweak. But not a racist dig in my opinion.



I think the point is, what he said in the context in which he said it is particularly dismissive of these young black men. LeBron's reaction wasn't disproportionate. Pretty much just "Fuck Phil", not a demand that he be fired as we so often hear.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:23 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The word "racist" has lost its meaning.


Spoken like someone who's never experienced it.


It is used like a broad brush to paint anyone and everyone who says anything negative about any minority group.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Drake LaRrieta wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The word "racist" has lost its meaning.


Spoken like someone who's never experienced it.


It is used like a broad brush to paint anyone and everyone who says anything negative about any minority group.


Thanks for confirming.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:34 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I think the point is, what he said in the context in which he said it is particularly dismissive of these young black men. LeBron's reaction wasn't disproportionate. Pretty much just "Fuck Phil", not a demand that he be fired as we so often hear.



I think the telling thing about this is there was no apology or request for an apology from Phil as far as I know. Also, as far as I know, nothing further from Lebron. So I am going to just go with Jorr's Phil dug at him dismissively and Lebron pretty much said fuck Phil and it is over.

Much like many things we talk more here than the actual events were in reality.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:41 pm 
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Drake LaRrieta wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The word "racist" has lost its meaning.


Spoken like someone who's never experienced it.


It is used like a broad brush to paint anyone and everyone who says anything negative about any minority group.


It is instinctively dismissed by MANY who would prefer to pretend it doesn't exist and that they are the ones under attack. It's really disappointing.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:59 am 
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Nas wrote:
Drake LaRrieta wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The word "racist" has lost its meaning.


Spoken like someone who's never experienced it.


It is used like a broad brush to paint anyone and everyone who says anything negative about any minority group.


It is instinctively dismissed by MANY who would prefer to pretend it doesn't exist and that they are the ones under attack. It's really disappointing.


Do you think that this Phil Jackson quote is an example of racism? What about racist Halloween costumes? How is racism defined becomes the question. Where do you think it exists?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:18 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
Drake LaRrieta wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The word "racist" has lost its meaning.


Spoken like someone who's never experienced it.


It is used like a broad brush to paint anyone and everyone who says anything negative about any minority group.


It is instinctively dismissed by MANY who would prefer to pretend it doesn't exist and that they are the ones under attack. It's really disappointing.


Do you think that this Phil Jackson quote is an example of racism? What about racist Halloween costumes? How is racism defined becomes the question. Where do you think it exists?


I said I didn't think it was. Racism exist everywhere .

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:58 am 
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Nas wrote:
I said I didn't think it was. Racism exist everywhere .


Racism difficult to define. It exists everywhere. While I am certain that there are racists, I do not believe there is a system of white supremacy in the United States otherwise Asian Americans would not be the highest earners in the country and middle aged white people would not be the demographic with the worst trend for age at death.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:13 am 
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Racism is really an interesting and complex thing. I learn a lot here from black posters as well as the real world. I cannot completely understand it as I am not black and do not feel a direct result.

For me, from my perspective only, it seems that there is no binary identifying of the problem or a solution. Systemic versus personal racism is just one example of complexity. I don't see a do this and fix that simplicity.

My feeling is that there is a time component that gets missed. By that I mean when things are discussed and solutions debated they are usually thought of as do this now and see this result almost immediately. What I have seen though is a final answer (if there is one) will take a very long time. In my lifetime and limited view I see the 70's better than the 60's and the 80's better than the 70's and so on until today. It isn't linear but it progress seems to move forward. Understandably, I think the closer you get to a goal like no racism setbacks get viewed with anger and frustration.

I am not sure we will see some utopia like results before I die but today is certainly not 1956.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:51 pm 
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I've always believed that progress has been made but the past couple of years it appears MANY people are angry and believe reversing that progress is the solution. The election of Donald Trump just about confirms that.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:45 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I've always believed that progress has been made but the past couple of years it appears MANY people are angry and believe reversing that progress is the solution. The election of Donald Trump just about confirms that.


I can see some being scared in the short term but long term I would say that is overstated.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:49 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I've always believed that progress has been made but the past couple of years it appears MANY people are angry and believe reversing that progress is the solution. The election of Donald Trump just about confirms that.

I'm not sure what progress has been made recently.

Things like Ferguson certainly did not help, however.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:51 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I've always believed that progress has been made but the past couple of years it appears MANY people are angry and believe reversing that progress is the solution. The election of Donald Trump just about confirms that.

here's what bugs me...racists raise racists. I wonder if it will ever end. I run into people who just make me sad with their comments even today about Obama...not about his performance as a president, but his color of skin.

What it gets back to ultimately is people are inherently evil, not good. And that will never change.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:52 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Nas wrote:
I've always believed that progress has been made but the past couple of years it appears MANY people are angry and believe reversing that progress is the solution. The election of Donald Trump just about confirms that.


I can see some being scared in the short term but long term I would say that is overstated.


I believe that you are right. I'm still optimistic.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:56 pm 
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IMU wrote:
Nas wrote:
I've always believed that progress has been made but the past couple of years it appears MANY people are angry and believe reversing that progress is the solution. The election of Donald Trump just about confirms that.

I'm not sure what progress has been made recently.

Things like Ferguson certainly did not help, however.


The propaganda has worked wonders. Now poor whites believe stronger than ever that they are not in the same boat as poor blacks and Hispanics. That couldn't be further from the truth.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:58 pm 
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Nas wrote:
The propaganda has worked wonders. Now poor whites believe stronger than ever that they are not in the same boat as poor blacks and Hispanics. That couldn't be further from the truth.


Now if someone were to figure out how to make that a block and work pulling on the same end of the rope Wall St. and the elite would be terrified.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:22 pm 
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If you had to put a percentage on what percentage of various racial groups are racist in America what percentage would you put for each demographic?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:48 pm 
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Drake LaRrieta wrote:
If you had to put a percentage on what percentage of various racial groups are racist in America what percentage would you put for each demographic?


still doing the market research thing huh


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:55 pm 
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Whites 50%
Blacks 25%
Hispanics 90% (inflated due to Puerto Ricans hating Mexicans and Mexicans hating Dominicans)
Asians 75%
Indians 1%

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:13 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Racism is really an interesting and complex thing. I learn a lot here from black posters as well as the real world. I cannot completely understand it as I am not black and do not feel a direct result.

For me, from my perspective only, it seems that there is no binary identifying of the problem or a solution. Systemic versus personal racism is just one example of complexity. I don't see a do this and fix that simplicity.

My feeling is that there is a time component that gets missed. By that I mean when things are discussed and solutions debated they are usually thought of as do this now and see this result almost immediately. What I have seen though is a final answer (if there is one) will take a very long time. In my lifetime and limited view I see the 70's better than the 60's and the 80's better than the 70's and so on until today. It isn't linear but it progress seems to move forward. Understandably, I think the closer you get to a goal like no racism setbacks get viewed with anger and frustration.

I am not sure we will see some utopia like results before I die but today is certainly not 1956.



I can provide an example what it looks like from a personal standpoint. In September of this year I was in Houston for the Bears game. I attended a day party on the Sunday of the game at this spot called "Cle' ". I'd RSVP'd on line and paid $20 for entry. WHen I arrived the guy on the door immediately stopped me and said that I wasn't addressed appropriately. I had on linen shorts Versace T-Shirt and designer Sandals. He told me that I'd have to change my attire and immediately walked off. I stood at the entrance for clarification and he never came back. After about 10 minutes a chick finally came out and said that I was dressed OK but it was too early for General Admission. It was about 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon. She said that they only do bottle service at this particular time of the day. General Admission starts at 5:00. She told me to come back then. My guys from Chicago were also doing a day party and there day party happened to be a block over from CLe at Gage Lounge. I said fuck it I will go burn a little time at Gage and then come back over at 5. When I came back at 5 the same dude came back and said look man I told you that you have to change your attire. I stood and observed everyone (white) that they allowed to enter. There were about 20- 25. They all had on Jorts T-SHirt and sneakers. When i pointed it out to the dude he said "yeah but it is the way they are wearing it".

It was at this particular point that I became a little hostile. I told him either I get my little $20 bucks back or I'm going in. After a little back and forth he finally allowed me in. I walked in for about a minute to do a little "recon" work. There were about 150-200 people all white and I just walked back out. At that point it wasn't about me getting in as much as it was about the dude not letting me in.

The crazy thing about it was that the door man was black (token). He was the only black person at the spot and his primary job to deal with the "Negro" problem. I'm sure to ward off charges off racism. I told him not let them use him like that. He basically proceeded to tell me that he was the "do everything" for that particular club. Owner, Doorman, Valet, etc he did it all. I said but you are working the door how could you be the owner. I just walked off after that. I didn't want to come in after all the bullshit but I wasn't going to let him deny me the opportunity. It was a matter of principle especially after I'd already paid.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:31 am 
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long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Racism is really an interesting and complex thing. I learn a lot here from black posters as well as the real world. I cannot completely understand it as I am not black and do not feel a direct result.

For me, from my perspective only, it seems that there is no binary identifying of the problem or a solution. Systemic versus personal racism is just one example of complexity. I don't see a do this and fix that simplicity.

My feeling is that there is a time component that gets missed. By that I mean when things are discussed and solutions debated they are usually thought of as do this now and see this result almost immediately. What I have seen though is a final answer (if there is one) will take a very long time. In my lifetime and limited view I see the 70's better than the 60's and the 80's better than the 70's and so on until today. It isn't linear but it progress seems to move forward. Understandably, I think the closer you get to a goal like no racism setbacks get viewed with anger and frustration.

I am not sure we will see some utopia like results before I die but today is certainly not 1956.



I can provide an example what it looks like from a personal standpoint. In September of this year I was in Houston for the Bears game. I attended a day party on the Sunday of the game at this spot called "Cle' ". I'd RSVP'd on line and paid $20 for entry. WHen I arrived the guy on the door immediately stopped me and said that I wasn't addressed appropriately. I had on linen shorts Versace T-Shirt and designer Sandals. He told me that I'd have to change my attire and immediately walked off. I stood at the entrance for clarification and he never came back. After about 10 minutes a chick finally came out and said that I was dressed OK but it was too early for General Admission. It was about 3 or 3:30 in the afternoon. She said that they only do bottle service at this particular time of the day. General Admission starts at 5:00. She told me to come back then. My guys from Chicago were also doing a day party and there day party happened to be a block over from CLe at Gage Lounge. I said fuck it I will go burn a little time at Gage and then come back over at 5. When I came back at 5 the same dude came back and said look man I told you that you have to change your attire. I stood and observed everyone (white) that they allowed to enter. There were about 20- 25. They all had on Jorts T-SHirt and sneakers. When i pointed it out to the dude he said "yeah but it is the way they are wearing it".

It was at this particular point that I became a little hostile. I told him either I get my little $20 bucks back or I'm going in. After a little back and forth he finally allowed me in. I walked in for about a minute to do a little "recon" work. There were about 150-200 people all white and I just walked back out. At that point it wasn't about me getting in as much as it was about the dude not letting me in.

The crazy thing about it was that the door man was black (token). He was the only black person at the spot and his primary job to deal with the "Negro" problem. I'm sure to ward off charges off racism. I told him not let them use him like that. He basically proceeded to tell me that he was the "do everything" for that particular club. Owner, Doorman, Valet, etc he did it all. I said but you are working the door how could you be the owner. I just walked off after that. I didn't want to come in after all the bullshit but I wasn't going to let him deny me the opportunity. It was a matter of principle especially after I'd already paid.


Racist Studio 54 vibe.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:41 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:44 am 
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While waiting for IMU outside of Wrigley the police asked me a few questions. I didn't have a backpack and I doubt I even had on gym shoes. I laughed it off but there were MANY people standing where I was and most of them weren't going inside. I was the only black guy that was in that area though.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:49 am 
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Nas wrote:
While waiting for IMU outside of Wrigley the police asked me a few questions. I didn't have a backpack and I doubt I even had on gym shoes. I laughed it off but there were MANY people standing where I was and most of them weren't going inside. I was the only black guy that was in that area though.


Go Cubs!

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