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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:01 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The Nazi party was a socialist party.


:( dude

The Nazi's were anti-socialist. they just used the name for some reason.


:lol: Yeah, no kidding.

Let's also discuss how democratic the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" aka Best Korea really is.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:12 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:


4. Balancing the budget didn't help the economy? Curbing inflation while simultaneously maintaining low interest rates didn't help the economy? Reducing Federal Spending didn't help the economy? CLinton also raised generated more revenue for the country by raising taxes. There was a deficit when he took over and a surplus when he left.


The tech boom wasn't related to CLinton policies but the real estate boom was. The subsequent bust had to do with somewhat with his policies but they also had to do with fast and loose way that financiers used money. It also had to do with a Fed that simply believed that it could spend our way out of any problem. That was Alan Greenspan and it is mind boggling why his name never comes up. Bush also promoted fast and loose spending policies coupled with lower taxes and that had much more of a disastrous effect on the economy than anything Clinton did.


The conventional view of the Clinton economy, which seems to be more or less what you're arguing here, is that Clinton found a way to keep unemployment low while miraculously also maintaining low inflation, defying the expectations of economists. Such a dynamic presumably led to several years of solid economic growth and a new era of prosperity--including an unprecedented budget surplus--for the country.

The problem with this view is that it overwhelmingly favors the interests of the wealthy and upper middle classes, who disproportionately benefited from the economic gains of the Clinton years.

It is important to understand that one of the sources of the Clinton economic "miracle" was consistently low inflation. But the low inflation of the 1990s did not result from the expertise of Robert Rubin or Alan Greenspan; rather, it was--as Greenspan acknowledged--an effect of the "traumatized" workforce--that is, pervasive job insecurity--created by globalization and free trade. Because workers recognized their disposability within a global economic context (emphasized by the implementation of NAFTA U.S. entry into the WTO, neoliberal domination of the NLRB, and the mass offshoring of domestic jobs), labor power was undermined, paradoxically limiting upward pressure on wages despite an 8-year unemployment rate averaging less than 5%. The Clintonian miracle of low inflation-low unemployment was thus problematic for ordinary Americans, who often experienced widespread dislocation, anxiety, and wages that, if they did increase, lagged far behind overall gains in productivity.

Partially resulting from the Clintonian embrace of corporate globalization and capital fluidity, a far-reaching surge in investment took place in the 1990s. Such widespread investment, combined with a decidedly anti-labor political and economic environment--converged to produce a record-high price-earnings ration of about 44 in the late 90s. This massive speculative bubble led to increases in consumption and spikes in government receipts at the federal and state levels. Since the increase in consumption was driven by rising individual wealth derived from stock ownership, most of the bubble's financial gains and consumption benefits were enjoyed almost exclusively by the affluent. Despite generating a budget surplus, Clinton refused to pursue a stimulus program that would have had significant redistributive potential. Thus, the surplus, while widely praised by deficit hawks and neoliberal pundits, had no impact on the most vulnerable members of society. Nevertheless, Clinton did endorse the move toward a higher minimum wage (spearheaded by Congressional liberals) and state governments often used increased revenue to pursue infrastructure improvement projects. Both of these developments, along with the eventual trickle-down effect of the bubble, led to wage gains for many Americans, although those with a college degree experienced the greatest salary increases and the poorly educated continued to struggle.

Overall, economic inequality--which began to surge under Reagan--intensified under Clinton. Further, the underlying conditions that led to the Clinton economic miracle were either undesirable--job insecurity, declining labor power, job relocation--or unsustainable, as in the case of the stock market bubble. Finally, Clinton's assault on the welfare state exposed marginalized populations to new levels of poverty, a nightmarish development that was not recognized until the post-9/11 recession.

Despite these issues, it is not surprising that many academics, media workers and other members of the professional-managerial class are nostalgic for the Clinton economy. After all, their stock portfolios improved and their wages typically rose during this time. The problem, however, is that they have conflated their economic gains with the broader population, whose fortunes increased only modestly, stagnated, or declined under Clinton's leadership.



It definitely wasn't example of of a "a rising tide lifts all boats" but compared to what we have witnessed the last 10-15 years it was impressive. Low wages versus no wages. I don't agree that stimulus packages were the answer either. We have an economy now where a number of people have dropped out of the workforce. The Free Trade agreements that are bemoaned haven't been adjusted either since he left office. Yes he didn't curb inequality but the middle class did benefit from CLinton's presidency.


As far as the assault on welfare it could be looked at in a few ways. Generational welfare was a huge problem. You had millions and millions of people that knew nothing but govt assistance programs. That was never the intent. Welfare was supposed to be a temporary fix and instead it became permanent states of dependance. I understand that it cut off a number of people and that was unfortunate but Roosevelt never intended for it to be permanent when he started the program.


As far as Real Estate goes the collapse of the market more to do with Bush and Greenspan than it did Clinton.


But the economic formula from which Clinton benefited was unsustainable. It was an anomaly fueled by an unprecedented level of investment and a stock market bubble. It was a chimera. If that weren't the case, others would have duplicated it.

Economic stimulus packages have multiplier effects that often benefit the economy on a long-term basis, particularly if they are devoted to infrastructure improvements.

Clinton could have "reformed" welfare in a much more humane way--as many public policy analysts argued at the time--but he chose to be punitive. His targeting of the most vulnerable for political gain is shameful.

Clinton's policies gave birth to the subprime loan market and significantly deregulated the financial industry, thus helping inflate the real estate bubble. Greenspan and Clinton bear partial responsibility

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123215327787492291

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:51 pm 
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The Democratic party also generally is not supportive of the state of Israel. Obama send some of his campaign people to run against Bibi in Israel. You have to remember that the new Nazis are radical Muslims who view Jews and Americans as the target. Obama backed the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt and he gave a boatload of money to Iran. Iran sponsors terror against Iraq, Israel and other American allies throughout the world. Jordan is one of less radical Muslim countries, but Obama still bowed to the king of Jordan, which is not anything any American president should ever do.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:55 pm 
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Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The Democratic party also generally is not supportive of the state of Israel. Obama send some of his campaign people to run against Bibi in Israel. You have to remember that the new Nazis are radical Muslims who view Jews and Americans as the target. Obama backed the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt and he gave a boatload of money to Iran. Iran sponsors terror against Iraq, Israel and other American allies throughout the world. Jordan is one of less radical Muslim countries, but Obama still bowed to the king of Jordan, which is not anything any American president should ever do.


Is there any chance we can send you to confront the Muslim Brotherhood and try to change their evil ways? Maybe waive your bible in front of them. I'm sure that will go over well.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:16 pm 
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sjboyd0137 wrote:
Drake LaRrieta wrote:
The Democratic party also generally is not supportive of the state of Israel. Obama send some of his campaign people to run against Bibi in Israel. You have to remember that the new Nazis are radical Muslims who view Jews and Americans as the target. Obama backed the Muslim brotherhood in Egypt and he gave a boatload of money to Iran. Iran sponsors terror against Iraq, Israel and other American allies throughout the world. Jordan is one of less radical Muslim countries, but Obama still bowed to the king of Jordan, which is not anything any American president should ever do.


Is there any chance we can send you to confront the Muslim Brotherhood and try to change their evil ways? Maybe waive your bible in front of them. I'm sure that will go over well.

Well, Obama/Hillary tried teaching them 'democracy' via using Facebook and twitter. And Muslim Brotherhood responded by winning an election and trashing all of Egypt in an orgy of violence and murder.
So, Smart Power.


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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:25 pm 
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When you make an eight-year-old boy suck you off while you type, do you think it makes your posts better or worse?

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:33 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
When you make an eight-year-old boy suck you off while you type, do you think it makes your posts better or worse?

What a strange thought process.

Godwin's Law corollary" Whoever mentions 'pedophiles in an argument is deemed 'Loser' of said argument or moint.

#Perverts4Hillary
#AWiener
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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:35 pm 
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BeerFan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
When you make an eight-year-old boy suck you off while you type, do you think it makes your posts better or worse?

What a strange thought process.

Godwin's Law corollary" Whoever mentions 'pedophiles in an argument is deemed 'Loser' of said argument or moint.

#Perverts4Hillary
#AWiener
#SmartPower
#DonYoung


Here's a thought... why don't you actually interact with other posters? People don't dislike you because you're a whacked out crazy right-winger. They dislike you because all you do is troll and say dumb shit.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:48 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
BeerFan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
When you make an eight-year-old boy suck you off while you type, do you think it makes your posts better or worse?

What a strange thought process.

Godwin's Law corollary" Whoever mentions 'pedophiles in an argument is deemed 'Loser' of said argument or moint.

#Perverts4Hillary
#AWiener
#SmartPower
#DonYoung


Here's a thought... why don't you actually interact with other posters? People don't dislike you because you're a whacked out crazy right-winger. They dislike you because all you do is troll and say dumb shit.

Thank you for clarifying the problem.
And yet you call my perfectly logical and correct postings as crazy dumb shit.
Where is the common ground with those so blind they can not see?
I'll hang up and wait for the correct answer.

Exit Poll: 58 Percent of Hispanic Voters Back Donald Trump’s Immigration Policies


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -policies/

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:59 pm 
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IowaHawk: For every right wing psychopath in a mountain cabin, there are 50 left wing psychopaths in a faculty office.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:03 pm 
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#Credible
#GreatWorks
#Kofi

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:53 pm 
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That Zogby poll referred to above has an acorn for the blind:

The poll, conducted from Nov. 9 to Nov. 10 by Zogby Analytics for the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), found 58.5 percent of Hispanic voters favored President-Elect Donald Trump’s immigration policies, compared to 32.9 percent for failed Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton.

Of all voters, 57.4 percent said they support Trump’s immigration policies, with 38.4 percent backing Clinton’s.

Clinton promised to all but dissolve U.S. borders in her first 100 days in office, and told a South American bank in a private, paid speech she “dreamed” of a “hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders.”

#Ididn'tKnowthat
#selfInflicted
#votingAgeto30
#50

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:02 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
When you make an eight-year-old boy suck you off while you type, do you think it makes your posts better or worse?

CH, I'm not sure why you would go there.

That's beneath you...very sad...just my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:14 pm 
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Michigan finally called for Trump.

Final count 306 to 232

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:23 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Michigan finally called for Trump.

Final count 306 to 232


So weird the experts had it pretty much opposite.

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:37 am 
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pittmike wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Michigan finally called for Trump.

Final count 306 to 232


So weird the experts had it pretty much opposite.


Rigged

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:48 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Michigan finally called for Trump.

Final count 306 to 232


So weird the experts had it pretty much opposite.


Psy-Ops mixed with goalseeking and narrative shaping.

Declared a Clinton victory and worked back from there


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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:08 pm 
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Jill Stein will deliver Hillary

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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:13 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Jill Stein will deliver Hillary


This sham is far more dangerous than MANY believe.

An open attempt to subvert the Democratic process.


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 Post subject: Re: Clinton vs Trump
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:14 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Jill Stein will deliver Hillary


This sham is far more dangerous than MANY believe.

An open attempt to subvert the Democratic process.


I agree. Even if the election was stolen let it go. No doubt Hillary people are probably behind it.

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