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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:04 am 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Over the last 4 years only 3 pitchers in baseball have thrown 200+ innings with an ERA below 3.55.

Max Scherzer, Madison Bumgarner and Jose Quintana.



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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:08 am 
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2, 1, 3

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:09 am 
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America wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
America wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Remember, no matter who they get, they reportedly said "no" to a package of Andrew Benintendi+, and Hahn told us they would be able to secure more talent with more bidders in the off-season.

Yea they were too busy demanding Mookie Betts :lol: God this team is a joke.


No reason not to demand everything with Sale. This has to be a Hershel Walker type trade otherwise why trade a cost-controlled future Hall of Fame pitcher.

The Red Sox aren't going to part with Mookie Betts, nor should they. Sure Hahn can ask but he should hardly close the door on Dombrowski if he's not willing to part with Betts.



I think the Sox were asking for Bradley at the deadline and you can see that Boston probably made a mistake not doing it. Bradley limped home and the Red Sox sure could have used Sale in the postseason. I think something like Benetendi, Bradley and Swihart would have been a fair deal at the deadline. Not making it was probably bad for both teams. It may have cost Boston a World Series.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:12 am 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Over the last 4 years only 3 pitchers in baseball have thrown 200+ innings with an ERA below 3.55.

Max Scherzer, Madison Bumgarner and Jose Quintana.
How many pitchers have lost more games than they won?

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:57 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Keyser Soze wrote:
Over the last 4 years only 3 pitchers in baseball have thrown 200+ innings with an ERA below 3.55.

Max Scherzer, Madison Bumgarner and Jose Quintana.
How many pitchers have lost more games than they won?


There are an entire group of front offices who do not care about wins and losses for pitcher. Seems like they would be ideal trade partners.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:00 pm 
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Quintana's durability is what's appealing about him. If you're the Nationals you have Strasburg who looks like he'll never make it past August and Ross who has issues of his own. Q is pretty workmanlike, you plug him in as a #3 and don't worry about it all year.

Tough to gauge the appeal that has to a franchise thst is obviously clamoring for their own Madbum to unleash upon the world but who knows, maybe Quintana is a postseason animal.


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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:03 pm 
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America wrote:
Quintana's durability is what's appealing about him. If you're the Nationals you have Strasburg who looks like he'll never make it past August and Ross who has issues of his own. Q is pretty workmanlike, you plug him in as a #3 and don't worry about it all year.

Tough to gauge the appeal that has to a franchise thst is obviously clamoring for their own Madbum to unleash upon the world but who knows, maybe Quintana is a postseason animal.


Quintana does have a lot of value. And I do not doubt he will have a better career WAR going forward than Giolito. Prospects bomb out most of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:11 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
America wrote:
Quintana's durability is what's appealing about him. If you're the Nationals you have Strasburg who looks like he'll never make it past August and Ross who has issues of his own. Q is pretty workmanlike, you plug him in as a #3 and don't worry about it all year.

Tough to gauge the appeal that has to a franchise thst is obviously clamoring for their own Madbum to unleash upon the world but who knows, maybe Quintana is a postseason animal.


Quintana does have a lot of value. And I do not doubt he will have a better career WAR going forward than Giolito. Prospects bomb out most of the time.



Quintana has value, yeah. He just isn't a front of rotation stud pitcher. At any given time there are relatively few of those guys in baseball. You can't usually trade for them. That's why Sale is such a special case. But if other teams believe that Quintana is actually in the same class as Bumgarner or Scherzer, I'd move him as fast as I could before they realize he is not.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:15 pm 
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Still find it hard to believe that the Tribesmen would trade Sale with his contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Even if we handicap the Shelby Miller trade for Dave Stewart's...personality...the comparable return for Q really is Giolito and Robles.

Swanson > Giolito
Inciarte > Robles (Robles, best case, is what Inciarte already has become)
Blair > Nothing.

And Quintana is a better pitcher pitching in the better league with better stuff and on a better contract than Miller.


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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:24 pm 
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Quintana has a lot of value. He reminds me of a less mercurial, and much more durable Jaime Garcia.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:25 pm 
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Actually, shop him and Eaton to STL. Mozeliak seems to value consistency very highly (probably because the manager is an idiot), as evidenced by the Mike Leake signing.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:33 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
Actually, shop him and Eaton to STL. Mozeliak seems to value consistency very highly (probably because the manager is an idiot), as evidenced by the Mike Leake signing.


Package Abreu, Eaton, Quintana and Sale to St. Louis. Just because....

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:43 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Apologist wrote:
Actually, shop him and Eaton to STL. Mozeliak seems to value consistency very highly (probably because the manager is an idiot), as evidenced by the Mike Leake signing.


Package Abreu, Eaton, Quintana and Sale to St. Louis. Just because....



If that to swap the Sox minor league system for the Cards?


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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:46 pm 
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Apologist wrote:
Quintana has a lot of value. He reminds me of a less mercurial, and much more durable Jaime Garcia.



If I knew each guy was going to make 33 starts and pitch 200 innings I'd take Garcia every time. Durability counts for something, but I think Garcia is the better pitcher when he is actually pitching.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:57 pm 
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Red Sox, White Sox Building Momentum Toward Chris Sale Trade
By Steve Adams | December 6, 2016 at 11:51am CDT

The Red Sox have “built momentum” toward a deal to acquire ace Chris Sale from the White Sox, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). Rosenthal had just tweeted that Boston was still “strongly” in the mix for Sale prior to the newer report.

FanRag’s Jon Heyman tweets that Chicago asked Boston for Andrew Benintendi, but Boston strongly prefers to keep him. Chicago does like Jackie Bradley as well as a number of other young Boston pieces, though Bradley comes with four years of club control as opposed to Benintendi’s six.


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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:58 pm 
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There's the big fish...I hope this Nationals shit was a just ploy to get Dombrowski to cave and include Benintendi.


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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:58 pm 
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Cashman wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Apologist wrote:
Actually, shop him and Eaton to STL. Mozeliak seems to value consistency very highly (probably because the manager is an idiot), as evidenced by the Mike Leake signing.


Package Abreu, Eaton, Quintana and Sale to St. Louis. Just because....



If that to swap the Sox minor league system for the Cards?


Sure. I would take their instructors and methodology. But it was mostly a joke about fucking with the Cubs.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:01 pm 
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America wrote:
There's the big fish...I hope this Nationals shit was a just ploy to get Dombrowski to cave and include Benintendi.


It's playing out nicely. Like to see if they can get the Yankees involved as well. If I am the Nationals I would give whatever. You have two shots with Bryce Harper. They are not paying him $400 million. Go for broke for the next two years. Sign a closer. Trade for Sale.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:04 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
FanRag’s Jon Heyman tweets that Chicago asked Boston for Andrew Benintendi, but Boston strongly prefers to keep him.


:lol: :lol: When I go to buy a Mercedes Benz they ask for $80,000, but I strongly prefer to get the car and keep that money.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:06 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
America wrote:
There's the big fish...I hope this Nationals shit was a just ploy to get Dombrowski to cave and include Benintendi.


It's playing out nicely. Like to see if they can get the Yankees involved as well. If I am the Nationals I would give whatever. You have two shots with Bryce Harper. They are not paying him $400 million. Go for broke for the next two years. Sign a closer. Trade for Sale.

Now that they've locked horns the Red Sox and Nationals are bidding against each other, not the Sox. All the Sox really have to do is check up on the Dodgers and Astros to see if they are still interested, or to at least update them on what the basic framework of the deal would have to look like. Most likely by this evening the best deal they're going to get this offseason will be on the table, they either take it or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:06 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Trea Turner and Dansby Swanson are untouchable players in today's MLB. :lol:

Hahn should be hanging up on those clowns in DC and Atlanta.

Turner is untouchable because Harper will certainly leave Washington and so will Sale after he hits FA, and they need Turner to be the face of the franchise. He's their Konerko, only at a more difficult position. But the Nationals may as well empty out their farm system now for Sale and for a closer, because they're going to suck JDC's ass in 2019 through 2021.

Swanson already got traded once. He can get traded again.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:06 pm 
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Come on, Rick. Pick up the phone and call Theo. You know you want to.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:11 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Come on, Rick. Pick up the phone and call Theo. You know you want to.

Theo will offer him something like Jake, Jimenez, Happ, and Candelario.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:15 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Apologist wrote:
Quintana has a lot of value. He reminds me of a less mercurial, and much more durable Jaime Garcia.



If I knew each guy was going to make 33 starts and pitch 200 innings I'd take Garcia every time. Durability counts for something, but I think Garcia is the better pitcher when he is actually pitching.


That's the problem right there. They got there money's worth out of JG's contract, even with all of the surgeries. They shipped him out to Atlanta (another team I can't tell what the hell they are doing) for marginal prospects, only because he is potentially blocking Alex Reyes. Quintana isn't blocking anyone as far as I can tell, so CWS needs to get some guys who are ready now.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:16 pm 
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Cfmb tell me if this is a good deal or not


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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:16 pm 
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Sale to Red Sox. Done deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:16 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
done: to redsox for Moncada, Kopech, others



They better have gotten Benintendi as well. Now flip Quintana for the Nationals package.

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 Post subject: Re: Trading Sale
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:17 pm 
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Boston got him. No word on return.


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