We must support democracy in Crimea!
Don't support democracy in Taiwan!

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

We are now to the point where we acknowledge Russian interference in our election but kind of shrug our shoulders and say "what does it matter".

Scary what MANY people will accept.

_________________

Personally, I am of the belief that Russia is much more harmless than they are being portrayed, and that Trump sees bringing them closer as a way to gain leverage over China. People NEVER talk about the fact that the invaded Crimeans actually REACHED-OUT to Russia and begged them for help in that situation. Yet we portray it as an invasion. They wanted to be re-annexed after the way they were being treated.

I think that is the buried lede here - many pols are disturbed that our relationship with China (and, thus, their private cash engines) may be about to get corrected, and China's free ride for providing slave labor and corrupted currency may be curtailed.

It is no coincidence that Trump is making kind with countries that border the Red Giant (Russia & Taiwan, to name just two) - you can see that it is pissing off and making them nervous, too (lol they reportedly put on a nuclear bomber show in the South China Sea the other day as a flex).

_________________
I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE

That's not right. I assume outsiders try to influence the U.S. all the time. I doubt this was the first time. The point here is that the story is not being played as a way to prevent something from happening in the future, but rather as a way to undermine an incoming president.

What do you think should be done? Should we assume that without Russian assistance Clinton would have won and install her in office? What do you want to happen?

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.

How did the statement go? First they came for x and y, but I wasn't one, so I did nothing...

But it's funny to see long fascist diatribes launched asking others to completely ignore facts and reason in favor of complete inaction and blind acceptance.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Trump did have a hard on for China during the campaign. Maybe you are right?

_________________
Elections have consequences.

What do you want to happen? Should Clinton be installed as president to thwart Russia?

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.

So I can't, but you can. Gotcha.




So if you believe they deserved it, then it's justified.

And, to say that it would be justified for the GOP as well is akin to some weird alien theory. So you must think the GOP's servers would be full of plans for ice cream socials and sock hops.

Perfectly reasonable.

_________________

But Trump ran against the Republican and military establishments during the campaign, and now he is selecting as cabinet members figures who exclusively belong to the Republican and military establishments. His appointments don't merely suggest that he will govern differently than he campaigned; rather, they indicate that he will govern in direct opposition to his campaign platform. That's a huge problem and merits the scrutiny Trump is now receiving; it should also be noted that this criticism is not unique, as Obama was strongly attacked for his appointment of Tim Geithner.

That aside, Trump's selection for SOS is abysmal because it casts doubt on the president-elect's knowledge of global affairs, on the idea that he will govern in the public interest, and on his fundamental loyalty to the United States.

_________________

Dolphin hit on it pages ago, those bastards at AIPAC have been doing this for years, lately with Congressional approval and with GOP complicity. At this point I think the only thing that can be done is a cleansing by sunlight and a transparent investigation before this current batch of Republican "leaders" screws us up to continue to serve their party over country.

We cannot be afraid to break precedent to preserve the Constitution in the face of this opposition led by heinous actors and worst among us.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

The better question to one always with the "But Hillary" arguments is: What do think you think should be done, other than the passive acceptance MANY seem to promote.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

The Obama administration leaked classified info to directly undermine the next President. That's cool.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

If we believe that Trump colluded with Putin to steal an American election and create an informal Soviet-American superstate with Putin as Dear Leader and Trump as his lap dog, by all means, let's take radical action immediately. But outside of Kirkwood I don't think anyone really believes that's what has occurred.

So we're left with the possibility that Russia interfered with the election in a way that may or may not have benefited Donald Trump. I have difficulty seeing how this is an indictment of Trump rather than an indictment of the cyber security policies of the sitting administration and its agencies.

I think we should be discussing how to solve the problem rather than using the circumstances to undermine the presidency.

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.

This is where I am and I think people should be. A lot of talk here about bad Trump and evil Putin. No one picks up Hatchet's Obama admin leaks at all.

Why not stop reacting to leaked information and have an actual investigation if this is so important?

_________________
Elections have consequences.

All you people thinking HRC would be this tough guy against Russia seem to forget she brokered the deal for Russia to gain control over our Uranium deposits when she was SOS. The Russians hacked the DNC and released it, so that shows they favored Trump,okay. The Saudis gave the Clinton Foundation Millions. So did the government of Mexico. So I would say they favored her, but that is okay I guess.
How much was the Chinese contribution to the Clinton foundation? Over $5 million for just one donor. That is one of the main reason the Foundation is being investigated. but that is okay.
Russia probably hacked both sides but they did not release information they had that would damage the guy they would rather have in their, so they choose not to get that much more involved. We got to stop like we are all innocent ,we interfere in other countries elections all the time. Now someone got caught doing it to us. Plus, what about all the lobbyists that work D.C. and ply Congressmen and Senators with cash and gifts to help out their clients,some of them Nations States?
All this is one more attempt by the left to not accept that the American people did not choose their pick for President. Anyone notice that in the recounts Trump is seeming to be getting more votes?

_________________
When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Hillary wouldn't be tough with Russia. She wouldn't nominate a SOS that has such close ties to Russia that you literally can question whether he is more loyal to Putin or Trump.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

See my edit on expressing MY take on hackers. Also, nice quote-cleaving of my Hillary assessment.

So, lets just muffle ALL whistle-blowers then, just because they are not blowing the whistle in every direction?

We are all better off that this information was uncovered.

I don't purport to know what the GOP is or is not doing, but we do know that the DNC was up to no good, and what has been seen cannot be un-seen, so. . .

I bet Trump is not going to honor another pledge: to not prosecute!

_________________
I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE

Plenty of posters will go ad-hominem on Chas and reject everything that he types, a lot of which may be drivel, but if you just read the words, his above take makes complete sense and is entirely reasonable.

_________________
I like thinking big. . . If you're going to be thinking anything, you might as well think big.
-Donald J. Trump, BPE

I did notice this.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

The hacks were in 2015 and early 2016. Russia was attempting to undermine Hillary's upcoming presidency. They had nothing relating to Trump that we know of. How were they supposed to undermine Trump?

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I agree wholeheartedly. Let's see what all areas of the Executive branch did or didn't do, including the FBI. Let the chips then fall where they may and leave an honest accounting of one's (& MANY'S) legacies .

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Perhaps by releasing the info on Mango Mussolini's personal and business misdealings.

And now the Chinese are flying bombers all over the South China Sea to send a message to us all while Trump has no time for intelligence briefings, press conferences or things other than meetings with Kanye West.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Obama should have laid out the cards before the election (some info did indeed come out, not sure if any of it was official and on the record). Should have said it appears a foreign state is attempting to interfere with our election process and that CIA, FBI, NSA, etc are working together to find out exactly what happened. We will update when the investigation is completed.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Agreed.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

The Clintons have been the most investigated group in politics over the past 25 years. Not close. They have never been found guilty of anything. As far as the Clinton Foundation goes it doesn't survive without rich donors. If they have influenced policy then your argument is legit. I don't know of one instance in which it has. As far as the Saudis go they are our allies remember. Same with China. Russia isn't and they have a leader that commits War crimes, ignores agreements, and overthrows govts. He also has never stopped fighting the Cold War.

As far as the Uranium stuff goes that is legit but it's one thing to do a deal but it is another to be an ally. It is also quite another thing to have a leader that is allowed to influence your govt. From the Campaign Manager to now the Exxon Mobile guy you cant ignore this.

_________________

Russia knew that Hillary was so scandal tainted all they had to do was throw another log on the fire to get things really cooking! Hillary had a 92% chance of winning at one point (polls). They didn't care about Trump, he was never going to win.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Russia clearly had some effect on the election. We knew it at the time.

It's amazing Hillary and the Democrats couldn't overcome that well known fact.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He is surrounding himself with long time Republican donors. The other part that I find interesting is the part about him running against Republican establishment". He is really a Dem. masquerading in Republican clothing. His Cabinet appointments don't suggest it. He has some of the most right wing leaning people that this country has to offer surrounding him. His Free Trade bluster has already gone up in smoke too.

_________________

About the only effect seems to me that big evening of the polls when Assange dropped the emails during the DNC convention or at the end. Do we even know for sure he got them from the Russians? I am seeing crap about China doing it.

_________________
Elections have consequences.