What? That's a commonsense statement. Anything that a president does in the run up to an election will be used to attack him. Saying that he would have more flexibility to negotiate after his election is commonsense. I'm sure Dmitry Medvedev already knew that.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Funny how that works. The Republicans were in favor of free trade until the Obama administration completed TPP. You know that "gold standard" trade deal?

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

They were literally in favor of Obamacare and they loved patriotism too. One president made them reconsider.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I realize you fancy yourself an objective non-partisan American patriot, but I don't think anyone reading your posts would really get that idea.

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.

No one was in favor of Obamacare except Obama and his party. And I think most Republicans still favor TPP. It's Trump that does not. And it was Hillary Clinton who called it "the gold standard". Let's keep these facts straight.

But back to my point, if you don't think America is exceptional and you don't believe American values are better than any other values, where is your moral high ground in criticizing Putin? Aren't his ideas just as good as any?

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.

Ahhhhh, where moral relativism meets its dubious conclusion.

_________________

I don't hate Obama. But his foreign policy has been an unmitigated disaster. Like so many liberals he assumes that everyone else is just like him and wants the same things he does, that people are reasonable and rationale. He reached out a hand to all these foreign governments and he drew back a figurative stump and now we're going to somehow figure out a way to blame Trump. Remember when "the world hated us because of George Bush." You couldn't have gotten it any more wrong. All the bowing and scraping of Obama and the world hates us more than ever.

If America doesn't want to lead, somebody else is going to. You have to decide, is our way the best way and worthy of being spread globally or should we be humble because our way is no different morally than anyone else's way. If you choose the latter you should shut the fuck up about Vladimir Putin.

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.

You can believe whatever you want to believe. My thoughts are consistent and I don't transform into a defensive Chas when my thoughts are challenged.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I was not mixing up my facts. All of what I said was as intended. Republicans had every chance to pass TPP before and even after the election. Trump was not in favor, and Hillary reversed her position to shore up her left flank and beat back Trump. I threw in the gold standard comment because of the Hillary wrinkle.

Nas is referring to the fact that mandating insurance coverage was a Conservative idea. Of course, the minimum plan standards, expansion of Medicaid, loss corridors, exchanges, and such were not part of the original Conservative plan.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

There you go again getting the facts wrong. Obamacare is virtually identical to the Republicans proposal in the 90's and it's identical to the healthcare plan Hillary ran on in 2008 and Obama trashed.

Something tells me that you'll become patriotic again in the next 4 to 8 years. Right now Putin is great.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

They could have passed the trade agreement during Obama's presidency if they were in favor.

Indeed, and that was my point.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

Nas, I don't think Conservatives ever wanted Medicaid expansion and minimum plan standards. Hillary's plan was single payor, if memory serves correctly.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

How quickly people forget...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/ ... rack-obama

Russia wasn't a problem, Iran was. ooops

I bet this wasn't treason either.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/world ... posed.html

_________________

Hillary's plan is the law right now. Obama attacked her during the campaign about the mandates. I believe he called her Bob Dole or something.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Merrick Garland agrees. So did Orrin Hatch, before... well you know.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I was going to cite that as well, but then again, the critics around here would argue it is different for Supreme Court nominee.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

You're talking shit. The people that passed Obamacare don't even know exactly what's in it. It's about 3000 pages and the associated regulations are over 30,000 pages. I'm gonna take a wild guess you haven't really read it.

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.

I looked it up on Wikipedia and you're right. They are pretty close.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_h ... an_of_1993

"To achieve this, the Clinton health plan required each US citizen and permanent resident alien to become enrolled in a qualified health plan on her or his own or through programs mandated to be offered by businesses with more than 5,000 full-time employees. Subsidies were to be provided to those too poor to afford coverage, including complete subsidies for those below a set income level. Users would choose plans offered by regional health alliances to be established by each state. These alliances would purchase insurance coverage for the state's residents and could set fees for doctors who charge per procedure.[5][6] The act provided funding to be sent to the states for the administration of the plan, beginning at $14 billion in 1993 and reaching $38 billion in 2003."

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

From a liberal source:

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/3 ... -democrats

_________________
Freedom is our Strength.

I haven't been reading this thread but has anyone mentioned Hillary and her emails?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Neither Republicans nor Democrats have a leg to stand on when it comes to hypocrisy.

Some are able to be objective about it and criticize their party and some are not.

_________________

Thank you Peeps.

You are a great American.

_________________

Really? I could think of a thousand parallels that make this point wrong.

I don't believe that Barack Obama was an exceptional president. Therefore, I have no moral high ground to criticize Nazis. Exact same logic, right?

_________________

Define moral relativism.

_________________

Poster of the year in 2016 from an objective observer.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

I want to hear about immoral relativism where people equate daydreaming about marital infidelity with something like a cocaine fueled orgy.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You

Logical fallacy. False equivalency. You name it.

You are making an assumption that those who think we should be humble believe so because our way is no different than anyone else's way. Perhaps they feel that way because they believe our way is better but that it isn't our job or moral obligation to spread what we think is better to the rest of the world through force. There's so many assumptions being made, there's not enough room to list them.

_________________

And define dubious while you're at it.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY