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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:58 am 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I completely disagree with that. Every candidate is an individual. The right woman could easily win a presidential election. You seem to be suggesting it's more difficult for a woman to be elected in the U.S. than it is in Germany, England, or Pakistan. I find that idea absurd.


A woman definitely has it harder than any other group of people when it comes to becoming president. There is no doubt in my mind. It's a reality MANY choose to deny.


Michelle Obama is probably going to run in 2024 and is going to win.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Nas wrote:
First president in history with ZERO political experience.


Eisenhower, Hoover, Grant and Taylor.


I wouldn't say Generals or political appointees is the same as NEVER being a public servant and still managing to win the highest office.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

I completely disagree with that. Every candidate is an individual. The right woman could easily win a presidential election. You seem to be suggesting it's more difficult for a woman to be elected in the U.S. than it is in Germany, England, or Pakistan. I find that idea absurd.


A woman definitely has it harder than any other group of people when it comes to becoming president. There is no doubt in my mind. It's a reality MANY choose to deny.


Michelle Obama is probably going to run in 2024 and is going to win.



Kushner 2024- first Jewish president. Bookmark this post.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:07 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
He had to work very hard to make the majority comfortable. He wasn't on an equal playing field as everyone else.


Doesn't every candidate? And don't you think that he enjoyed some advantages such as record African American support and some media cheerleading? I don't think being black proved to be an obstacle.


No disrespect but of course you don't think it was an obstacle. Many whites feel that way and you're wrong.


The you will never understand what it's like argument.
If you have some sort of primordial knowledge due to the accident of your heritage then there will always be a divide. I believe these divisions are of our own creating, and that if we really want to solve race issue this special status needs to go away as well. People can understand what it is like to be mistreated, bullied or overlooked. Is it exactly the same? Probably not, but to claim white people will never understand is putting this into the status of religion and original sin.


You can believe whatever you want. I'm sure it makes you feel good and sleep well at night but it's wrong. Talk to any successful minority and you'll more likely than not hear stories about how they had to work harder and overcome many more obstacles than a white man. Talk to successful women over 50 and you'll hear similar stories. This is reality. It's not groups of people pretending to be victims.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:11 pm 
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every successful person either actually did work harder than others or believes they did. that is a fact and I will put my fingers in my ears and go NANANNNANAAA if you even try to respond.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Most eveyone had to work harder than other people to get where they are at some point.

Ugly people have it harder than the Nases of the world.

Fat people have it harder than the dougs of the world.

Poor people have it harder than the Dr Kens of the world.

Life isn't fair.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Nas wrote:
First president in history with ZERO political experience.


Eisenhower, Hoover, Grant and Taylor.

Oops.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:19 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.



Really? Obama had an easier time than McCain, didn't he?

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.



Really? Obama had an easier time than McCain, didn't he?

Yes. On an individual level there are exceptions. On the macro scale the numbers overwhelmingly support Nas in this debate.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:21 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.
Hillary didn't though. She had every political position she ever had gift wrapped to her.

I mean, people were honestly arguing during the election that being first lady is more experience than being a Senator!

She was gifted her Senate seat because of it and then proceeded to get outworked and beaten in two other national elections.

I mean, she literally almost won the Presidency simply because her husband was President before.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:23 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.



Really? Obama had an easier time than McCain, didn't he?

Yes. On an individual level there are exceptions. On the macro scale the numbers overwhelmingly support Nas in this debate.



That's the thing though. There is no "macro level" when we're talking about running for president. Every person who is even a consideration is a highly privileged individual regardless of sex, race, or anything else.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
He had to work very hard to make the majority comfortable. He wasn't on an equal playing field as everyone else.


I think that's an insult to the vast majority of white people who clearly have no problem voting for a black man.

And I think it's contrary to what Obama himself believes. A lot of people- of all colors- were thrilled to vote for a black president. And I think Obama is right in that he would have won again if he had been eligible and run. That's the thing about the hateful racist America narrative that just doesn't add up. MANY people voted for Obama and Trump.


You may see it as an insult but it's the truth.

Of course Obama wouldn't say anything like that. They were excited to vote for HIM because of the way he made them feel and his unique story.


:lol: What difference does it make why someone voted for him? The fact is they did. Twice. And likely would have again.

And you want to talk about his "unique story". You're right it's unique. If it had been a white guy with the same experience he would have been laughed at as a serious presidential candidate.


It makes a huge difference. You and MANY other people want to pretend everyone has an equal playing field because Obama got elected twice and that's completely wrong.

I think Donald Trump getting elected just debunked that theory. He defeated the most qualified person on paper in 25 years without any experience. First president in history with ZERO political experience.



On Paper Donald Trump was a worse candidate than Al Sharpton.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Nas wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
He had to work very hard to make the majority comfortable. He wasn't on an equal playing field as everyone else.


Doesn't every candidate? And don't you think that he enjoyed some advantages such as record African American support and some media cheerleading? I don't think being black proved to be an obstacle.


No disrespect but of course you don't think it was an obstacle. Many whites feel that way and you're wrong.


The you will never understand what it's like argument.
If you have some sort of primordial knowledge due to the accident of your heritage then there will always be a divide. I believe these divisions are of our own creating, and that if we really want to solve race issue this special status needs to go away as well. People can understand what it is like to be mistreated, bullied or overlooked. Is it exactly the same? Probably not, but to claim white people will never understand is putting this into the status of religion and original sin.


You can believe whatever you want. I'm sure it makes you feel good and sleep well at night but it's wrong. Talk to any successful minority and you'll more likely than not hear stories about how they had to work harder and overcome many more obstacles than a white man. Talk to successful women over 50 and you'll hear similar stories. This is reality. It's not groups of people pretending to be victims.


Stories of working hard don't change the argument, which has become an emotional one. Right now based on income figures, Asian Americans are the most successful group in the United States. If whites were this unified group looking to hold minorities down in the United States, how would this be the case? Should I not sleep well at night because I was born white, which means I have blood on my hands for sins that occurred before my lifespan?

If all black people feel like whites are going to pull the carpet out whenever they feel like it, it's so self-defeating that there will always be a racial divide. I am not sure what benchmark has to be reached to change this perception. A black man was elected president, yet that is being discredited because he "made people comfortable".

I don't think that the accident of my heritage provides me with any special insight into past sins, and we seem to be venturing into a realm past "equality" whatever that means. Would reparations make things better? I honestly do not know because the goalposts keep moving.

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Last edited by WaitingforRuffcorn on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:25 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
He had to work very hard to make the majority comfortable. He wasn't on an equal playing field as everyone else.


I think that's an insult to the vast majority of white people who clearly have no problem voting for a black man.

And I think it's contrary to what Obama himself believes. A lot of people- of all colors- were thrilled to vote for a black president. And I think Obama is right in that he would have won again if he had been eligible and run. That's the thing about the hateful racist America narrative that just doesn't add up. MANY people voted for Obama and Trump.


You may see it as an insult but it's the truth.

Of course Obama wouldn't say anything like that. They were excited to vote for HIM because of the way he made them feel and his unique story.


:lol: What difference does it make why someone voted for him? The fact is they did. Twice. And likely would have again.

And you want to talk about his "unique story". You're right it's unique. If it had been a white guy with the same experience he would have been laughed at as a serious presidential candidate.


It makes a huge difference. You and MANY other people want to pretend everyone has an equal playing field because Obama got elected twice and that's completely wrong.

I think Donald Trump getting elected just debunked that theory. He defeated the most qualified person on paper in 25 years without any experience. First president in history with ZERO political experience.



On Paper Donald Trump was a worse candidate than Al Sharpton.


And Sharpton may have beaten Hillary. Sad.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.
Hillary didn't though. She had every political position she ever had gift wrapped to her.

I mean, people were honestly arguing during the election that being first lady is more experience than being a Senator!

She was gifted her Senate seat because of it and then proceeded to get outworked and beaten in two other national elections.

I mean, she literally almost won the Presidency simply because her husband was President before.



Your ignorance regarding her role in the Clinton White House and governorship knows no limits. Oh Yeah the Emails.


Giuiiani could have run for Senator and she'd have beaten him too. The gift wrapping of the spot is Conservative Republican revisionist spin.

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Last edited by long time guy on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.



Really? Obama had an easier time than McCain, didn't he?

Yes. On an individual level there are exceptions. On the macro scale the numbers overwhelmingly support Nas in this debate.



That's the thing though. There is no "macro level" when we're talking about running for president. Every person who is even a consideration is a highly privileged individual regardless of sex, race, or anything else.

Your last sentence is true but it's not a rebuttal to my post. Look at all the Presidents in history. Look at all the current Senators and House Reps. Look at all the major candidates for office over the past 20 years. I have yet to see you or anyone else make a reasonable case that a white person does not have an advantage when running for President. Until you can find something else to say besides Obama he's clearly the exception that proves the rule.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Most eveyone had to work harder than other people to get where they are at some point.

Ugly people have it harder than the Nases of the world.

Fat people have it harder than the dougs of the world.

Poor people have it harder than the Dr Kens of the world.

Life isn't fair.


Simplifying it this way makes MANY sleep better at night. It's not just hard work. Most successful people work hard. MANY times it's working hard to overcome whatever stereotype that people have of a person who looks like you. Not appearing to be a threat. Carrying yourself and speaking in ways no one else has to. Taking assignments no one else wants (with a smile) and not just doing well at them but needing to be great at them. Making everyone around you comfortable even at the expense of your own dignity because in your heart you believe this is your only shot at being successful and if you fuck it up there won't be another.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
[And Sharpton may have beaten Hillary. Sad.


I know. I would have totally voted for him. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.
Hillary didn't though. She had every political position she ever had gift wrapped to her.

I mean, people were honestly arguing during the election that being first lady is more experience than being a Senator!

She was gifted her Senate seat because of it and then proceeded to get outworked and beaten in two other national elections.

I mean, she literally almost won the Presidency simply because her husband was President before.

But she didn't win. And besides, like I already mentioned, I'm looking at the whole picture, not just individual political races.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:28 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Nas wrote:
First president in history with ZERO political experience.


Eisenhower, Hoover, Grant and Taylor.

Oops.


Except he was wrong. Oops

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:30 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
[And Sharpton may have beaten Hillary. Sad.


I know. I would have totally voted for him. :lol:


No you wouldn't.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:31 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Your ignorance regarding her role in the Clinton White House and governorship knows no limits. Oh Yeah the Emails.
What did she accomplish?
long time guy wrote:
Giuiiani could have run for Senator and she'd have beaten him too. The gift wrapping of the spot is Conservative Republican revisionist spin.
"could have". You thought she'd beat Trump too.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Nas and others are saying "It's harder for a black man or woman to be President than a white man." I think that's a completely reasonable and true statement. Rick and Jorr seem to read it as Nas saying "A white man cannot lose to a black man or woman in a race for President"

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:32 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.
Hillary didn't though. She had every political position she ever had gift wrapped to her.

I mean, people were honestly arguing during the election that being first lady is more experience than being a Senator!

She was gifted her Senate seat because of it and then proceeded to get outworked and beaten in two other national elections.

I mean, she literally almost won the Presidency simply because her husband was President before.

But she didn't win. And besides, like I already mentioned, I'm looking at the whole picture, not just individual political races.
You said "becoming President". We can only look at individual political races.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Your ignorance regarding her role in the Clinton White House and governorship knows no limits. Oh Yeah the Emails.
What did she accomplish?
long time guy wrote:
Giuiiani could have run for Senator and she'd have beaten him too. The gift wrapping of the spot is Conservative Republican revisionist spin.
"could have". You thought she'd beat Trump too.



So did a lot of people including you. Oh yeah you were just trolling when you suggested Trump would win. How was the seat gift wrapped?

It's her fault that people voted for Trump. This bit of revisionist spin is really the order of the day. The blithering idiot with dramatically shrinking approval ratings (worse than any incoming President in history by the way) is now her fault. People voted for Trump. The people that voted for this fool have to stand up and own it. Enough with the I didn't reallly want to do it but she made me garbage.

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Last edited by long time guy on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Nas wrote:
MANY times it's working hard to overcome whatever stereotype that people have of a person who looks like you. Not appearing to be a threat. Carrying yourself and speaking in ways no one else has to. Taking assignments no one else wants (with a smile) and not just doing well at them but needing to be great at them. Making everyone around you comfortable even at the expense of your own dignity because in your heart you believe this is your only shot at being successful and if you fuck it up there won't be another.


this is how MANY people feel, not just blacks. disabled, Latino, immigrant parents, POOR, whatever...we need to make this a better country by easing the path to economic success for everybody. a social media competition to decide which group is most disadvantaged and who is supposed to feel guilty about it will get nowhere.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.
Hillary didn't though. She had every political position she ever had gift wrapped to her.

I mean, people were honestly arguing during the election that being first lady is more experience than being a Senator!

She was gifted her Senate seat because of it and then proceeded to get outworked and beaten in two other national elections.

I mean, she literally almost won the Presidency simply because her husband was President before.


Honestly. She was so experienced as a first lady, except when it was something negative. Then she should not be blamed for his mistakes.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Last edited by WaitingforRuffcorn on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: MLK Article
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Of course a black man and/or a woman has a harder time becoming President than a white man. It's crazy to disagree with that.
Hillary didn't though. She had every political position she ever had gift wrapped to her.

I mean, people were honestly arguing during the election that being first lady is more experience than being a Senator!

She was gifted her Senate seat because of it and then proceeded to get outworked and beaten in two other national elections.

I mean, she literally almost won the Presidency simply because her husband was President before.


Honestly. She was so experienced as a first lady, except when it was something negative. Then she should not be blamed for his mistakes.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Last edited by WaitingforRuffcorn on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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