Would Jordan be considered the greatest if Krause didn't fleece Seattle for Scottie?

Even though RR, ltg, Jorr, and Dr Ken are wrong about basically everything I'm gonna need them to weigh in on that English/Melo question.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Rodgers has as much overall talent as anyone who's ever played. The mental part is obviously more important with QBs than any other. For years Brady's consistently crazy quick releases, great stats, ever changing cast, consistently top of the conference record, etc just highlights his talent. Of course coaching had a huge hand in all that and Belichick deserves all the credit he gets. But reading this thread I almost think Brady is still underrated and the idea of that is fuckin insane. Guys in this thread acting like he's a glorified system QB. circumstance always has an under appreciated role in athletes's careers but given what we know about him and what we've seen from him I'm fine saying he would've been a great QB either way, and made his way up either way. Being paired with Belichick means he turned into he GOAT (of QBs, GOAT of football will always be Jerry Rice)

I never was a big Alex English fan. He scored a lot of points but I always felt his was a product of Doug Moe's offense more than his individual greatness. They had a helluva a lot of talent in Denver and never made noise. I didn't really think of him as much of a go to scorer either strangely enough.

As 3 men went I didn't have him in my top 5 during the early mid 80's.

I never was a big Alex English fan. He scored a lot of points but I always felt his was a product of Doug Moe's offense more than his individual greatness. They had a helluva a lot of talent in Denver and never made noise. I didn't really think of him as much of a go to scorer either strangely enough.

As 3 men went I didn't have him in my top 5 during the early mid 80's.

Rodgers has as much overall talent as anyone who's ever played. The mental part is obviously more important with QBs than any other. For years Brady's consistently crazy quick releases, great stats, ever changing cast, consistently top of the conference record, etc just highlights his talent. Of course coaching had a huge hand in all that and Belichick deserves all the credit he gets. But reading this thread I almost think Brady is still underrated and the idea of that is fuckin insane. Guys in this thread acting like he's a glorified system QB. circumstance always has an under appreciated role in athletes's careers but given what we know about him and what we've seen from him I'm fine saying he would've been a great QB either way, and made his way up either way. Being paired with Belichick means he turned into he GOAT (of QBs, GOAT of football will always be Jerry Rice)

Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole

Jim Brown. The greatest football player can't be a wide receiver, he's way too dependent on those around him. Brown was the best player in the sport every year of his career.

I don't necessarily agree with this. Jordan was at the absolute peak of his powers in my opinion from 1991-1993 but he was also the best player in the league before that when he wasn't winning championships. In 1989 Collins put Jordan at Point as you said and he tore the league apart. He was clearly the best player in the league that season but he wasn't better in 1989 than he was in 1992.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

I don't think he would have been great without Drew Bledsoe forgetting to step out of bounds, and the opportunity falling into Brady's lap. There is no way to quantify that hypothetical tho.

The Patriots use a lot of air raid concepts, and blend in a power running game especially when the playoffs roll around. Brady has mastered this offense, and I do hold him in high regard as far as the GOAT discussion.

He probably wasn't. Bird, Older Dr. J, Dantley, Aguirre, Bernard King and Worthy were all probably better.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

If you pull up his rosters from those years there was no way in hell he should have made the playoffs and he was winning playoff series. He was both the best offensive and defensive player in the league. Those were the "Jordan Rule" years. Everyone knew he was the best player in the league then but they used the whole "championship"argument against him.

Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole

Can I get a Butler/English comp?

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Soccer: Is it a sport?

edit: I say no.

If you pull up his rosters from those years there was no way in hell he should have made the playoffs and he was winning playoff series. He was both the best offensive and defensive player in the league. Those were the "Jordan Rule" years. Everyone knew he was the best player in the league then but they used the whole "championship"argument against him.

You'd be better off with a Jerome Kersey/Jimmy Butler comparison

Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to winning a super bowl because he was that damn good (and again circumstances but he also went to another with a different team years later and almost won). Something tells me Brady would've made it.

Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole

Most Hall of Famers play alongside other Hall of Famers (except Brady? ) funny how that works.

Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole

Ltg hook me up with a good Fat Lever/Rondo comp. you were a Rondo guy too right? The few of us gotta stick together.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Not really a Rondo guy but I respect him for speaking his mind. I also fell into the narrative trap regarding coach killing. When I went back and thought about it he had the run in with Carlisle and butted heads with Rivers but he appeared to get along with the rather difficult George Karl. He also could have been a bastard towards Stephens and wasn't. He also appears to get along with Hoiberg. He has defended him on more than a few occasions this season.

As far as players Lever was better. Better scorer and more impactful. Lever was a triple double guy in his heyday. I think Rondo was overrated even when he was considered good and he benefitted tremendously from playing with 3 Hall of Famers.

I agree completely that he was completely carrying those awful rosters and was by far the best player in the league. Even though he wasn't winning championships I believe he was clearly the greatest player in the sport, better than Bird and Magic. Despite this i still don't think he reached his peak until 1992 when the gap between him and the second best player in the league was comical.

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

Drexler was considered the 2nd best in 92. This had more to do with the level of separation than anything. I just remember Jordan having to drive the dead ass carcasses of Gene Banks, Sam Vincent, Brad Sellers, etc into the playoffs year after year. There was no way in hell that they could be expected to do anything yet he would win series and make others competitive that should not have veen.

Even the Scottie migraine series was Jordan's work. He took Detroit to 7 games without much of anything around him. Pippin wasn't ready at that point either.

We can all certainly agree that regardless of our opinions on steroids Bonds is the best baseball player ever right? For a sport built on statistics he sure put up some video game fuckin numbers.

Weird, I see Dolphin looking in my asshole

We can all certainly agree that regardless of our opinions on steroids Bonds is the best baseball player ever right? For a sport built on statistics he sure put up some video game fuckin numbers.

Stop trolling.

Just a bit. Unequivocally the best player of the past 30 years.