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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:46 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
OK, how about all those protesters that didn't protest Obama not letting in any Syrians. Born yet?

Please don't use double negatives.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:47 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The green card part of it also makes it hard to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on any of it. That is the big problem. There is a valid argument to be made for a temporary ban on refugees. We don't owe them anything and there are other countries that should be dealing with them. When you start banning people who literally already live here it changes the discussion.


From a moral perspective, I wouldn't really say we don't owe them anything. We wrecked their countries, regardless of our intentions. But Europe has discovered that unless you hate your way of life, just allowing these refugees to come pouring in unchecked is a real problem.


Isn't this the real reason people wanted a policy action (needed or not)? He fucked up IMHO with the green card matter but that is already over.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:47 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
OK, how about all those protesters that didn't protest Obama not letting in any Syrians. Born yet?


You are making a charge in the race to become the master of the false equivalency.

MANY liberals criticized Obama over the last eight years. You don't know that because you read into a situation what you want. Time and time again, you have shown that your reading comprehension is very poor.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:48 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
So worldwide doesn't explain the ban. They didn't filter through the current US refugee vetting process.


It absolutely explains the ban. Those areas have produced people that are willing to take lives in Europe. Is the US only allowed to cease taking refugees from an area when one kills someone on US soil? Why is that?

Quote:
Anwar al-Awilaki - was born in the US


I have no idea why I said al-Awilaki. I meant Abdul Razak Ali Artan, the Ohio State attacker.

Quote:
Dahir Adan - he came to the US in 1996 as a 2-year-old.


What is the masimum time a refugee must be in the country in order to tie their admittance to the country with anything they might do later in life? 2 years? 3? 10?

If Adan and his family were not admitted into the country in 1996, what is the probability he still ends up stabbing 6 people in Minnesota?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:49 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Like I said. You have lost your marbles. You've been almost as bad as KellyAnne since the election, and you bust out Chas' victim card saying people are sore losers when they call you out on it. Calling you out on your hypocritical horse shit isn't being a partisan sheep. It's calling it down the middle.


How exactly am I hypocritical? And you are butthurt about Clinton's loss and really, MANY are. We can be concerned about Trump and the things he may do over the next four years but the real threat to our system is the attempts being made to negate an American election, which is really what this stuff is all about. One way or another Trump is going to be gone in four years (maybe sooner), but these attempts at delegitimizing the election/presidency are going to be with us forever.

See there you go again. I am not butthurt by the election. I have not tried to delgitimize the election. I have pointed out to the yappy's like you that MANY more people voted for the other person, so they need to listed to what the other side has to say. The hypocrisy is the "mandate!!!!" people who say DJT should get to do whatever the fuck he wants when they spent the last 4 years doing everyhing they could to stop Obama who did have an actual landslide victory. Trump is acting more like an emperor than Obama ever did, yet this seems to be OK with everybody on the Right.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:49 am 
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If a terrorist nuts on a pillow in the US and then leaves the country, are we still at risk?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:49 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
But why was the refugee ban required in the first place? What was basis behind the ban?


Anwar al-Awilaki

Dahir Adan

Worldwide:

Ahmad al-Mohammad (Paris, Syrian)

Loa'i Mohammad Haj Bakr al-Saqa (Istanbul, Syrian)

M al-Hahmod (Paris, Syrian)

Mohammad Daleel (Germany, Syrian)

Taoimour Abdulwahab al-Abdaly (Stockholm, Iraqi)

Rafik Yoursef (Berlin, Iraqi)

So worldwide doesn't explain the ban. They didn't filter through the current US refugee vetting process.

Anwar al-Awilaki - was born in the US

Dahir Adan - he came to the US in 1996 as a 2-year-old.



So two invalidate the majority. Get a fucking grip. Stop watching kids cartoons and realize a country has a right to protect its sovereign borders and population

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:50 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The green card part of it also makes it hard to give Trump the benefit of the doubt on any of it. That is the big problem. There is a valid argument to be made for a temporary ban on refugees. We don't owe them anything and there are other countries that should be dealing with them. When you start banning people who literally already live here it changes the discussion.


From a moral perspective, I wouldn't really say we don't owe them anything. We wrecked their countries, regardless of our intentions. But Europe has discovered that unless you hate your way of life, just allowing these refugees to come pouring in unchecked is a real problem.
I think we get a little too much blame for wrecking their countries. We played our role but it is much more complicated then that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:50 am 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

If Adan and his family were not admitted into the country in 1996, what is the probability he still ends up stabbing 6 people in Minnesota?

I can play that game with any immigrant starting from the Mayflower.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:51 am 
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Chus wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
OK, how about all those protesters that didn't protest Obama not letting in any Syrians. Born yet?


You are making a charge in the race to become the master of the false equivalency.

MANY liberals criticized Obama over the last eight years. You don't know that because you read into a situation what you want. Time and time again, you have shown that your reading comprehension is very poor.


there are a FEW decent liberals about, though I missed the massive protests regarding this issue.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:51 am 
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Deport all humans.

Leave the buffalo in charge.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:52 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
His response in firing her, calling her actions "a betrayal " is bizarre in a democratic republic for a non criminal act. Following it up with the press secretary basically calling for career foreign service officers to toe the party line... or quit is the attitude of a wannabe dictator like Bannon and Republican leadership apparently want.

They certainly have the attempts to silence all dissent part down.


Completely agree

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:52 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Deport all humans.

Leave the buffalo in charge.


The Bills?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:53 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Chus wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
OK, how about all those protesters that didn't protest Obama not letting in any Syrians. Born yet?


You are making a charge in the race to become the master of the false equivalency.

MANY liberals criticized Obama over the last eight years. You don't know that because you read into a situation what you want. Time and time again, you have shown that your reading comprehension is very poor.


there are a FEW decent liberals about, though I missed the massive protests regarding this issue.


By the way, it was Iraq, not Syria. The situations aren't even close to comparable. Obama's temporary ban on Iraqis was implemented after a foiled terror plot by Iraqis living in Kentucky.

Can you at least try to understand what you are complaining about?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:53 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Deport all humans.

Leave the buffalo in charge.


The Bills?


Maybe?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:54 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Well, the new administration does have the right to determine their own process for refugees. There isn't even an expectation that we will accept refugees from any country. We probably should accept them in limited numbers but it's not like refugee bans are unheard of. There are a ton of rich countries that are close to these refugees that should be taking a bigger role.

How he did it and how it included green card holders and other people who already are here is borderline impeachable in my opinion.

It seems like some people think there is only one correct answer to the question about bringing in refugees.

This is what is so maddening about Trump. There is a case to be made about how many refugees we take in and a normal guy would have just dealt with that. Instead, he bungles it so bad that we have people shutting down airports and almost everyone has to view his actions as undoubtedly wrong.


We take in about 50k a year from what I've read and the overwhelming majority of them are Christians.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:54 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Like I said. You have lost your marbles. You've been almost as bad as KellyAnne since the election, and you bust out Chas' victim card saying people are sore losers when they call you out on it. Calling you out on your hypocritical horse shit isn't being a partisan sheep. It's calling it down the middle.


How exactly am I hypocritical? And you are butthurt about Clinton's loss and really, MANY are. We can be concerned about Trump and the things he may do over the next four years but the real threat to our system is the attempts being made to negate an American election, which is really what this stuff is all about. One way or another Trump is going to be gone in four years (maybe sooner), but these attempts at delegitimizing the election/presidency are going to be with us forever.

See there you go again. I am not butthurt by the election. I have not tried to delgitimize the election. I have pointed out to the yappy's like you that MANY more people voted for the other person, so they need to listed to what the other side has to say. The hypocrisy is the "mandate!!!!" people who say DJT should get to do whatever the fuck he wants when they spent the last 4 years doing everyhing they could to stop Obama who did have an actual landslide victory. Trump is acting more like an emperor than Obama ever did, yet this seems to be OK with everybody on the Right.


I don't think people on the Right are embracing Trump. In fact, I'd suggest that the real American Right is just about dead, replaced by this isolationist populism whatever the fuck it is that Trump is selling.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:59 am 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Picture

A bombing 4 years ago by immigrants who emigrated from none of the 7 banned countries?



The travel and immigration restrictions aren't final. More countries could be added. What it starts is the proper vetting of people coming into this country.


No it didn't. It was nothing more than a political stunt.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:00 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Like I said. You have lost your marbles. You've been almost as bad as KellyAnne since the election, and you bust out Chas' victim card saying people are sore losers when they call you out on it. Calling you out on your hypocritical horse shit isn't being a partisan sheep. It's calling it down the middle.


How exactly am I hypocritical? And you are butthurt about Clinton's loss and really, MANY are. We can be concerned about Trump and the things he may do over the next four years but the real threat to our system is the attempts being made to negate an American election, which is really what this stuff is all about. One way or another Trump is going to be gone in four years (maybe sooner), but these attempts at delegitimizing the election/presidency are going to be with us forever.

See there you go again. I am not butthurt by the election. I have not tried to delgitimize the election. I have pointed out to the yappy's like you that MANY more people voted for the other person, so they need to listed to what the other side has to say. The hypocrisy is the "mandate!!!!" people who say DJT should get to do whatever the fuck he wants when they spent the last 4 years doing everyhing they could to stop Obama who did have an actual landslide victory. Trump is acting more like an emperor than Obama ever did, yet this seems to be OK with everybody on the Right.


I don't think people on the Right are embracing Trump. In fact, I'd suggest that the real American Right is just about dead, replaced by this isolationist populism whatever the fuck it is that Trump is selling.


Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:01 am 
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Chus wrote:
[Can you at least try to understand what you are complaining about?


No, I'm talking about Syria. Do a little research and find out how many Syrian refugees we've taken in since their civil war started in 2011.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:01 am 
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True story, a pastor in my neighborhood was trying to help a (Christian) Syrian family re-locate here because they were on the brink of being snuffed out by ISIS. He reached out via social media for minor donations, clothing, household goods etc.

The majority of the reaction was backlash.

"WHY CAN"T WE HELP DA VETS INSTEAD OF DESE ARABS(yes because helping a refugee forbids you for helping other charitable causes).

"I FEEL FOR DESE PEOPLE BUT I'M CONCERED ABOUT DA SAFETY OF MY FAMILY"(yeah, cause you know, fucking jihads happen all the time in Plainfield and Naperville)

The sad reality, is the majority of Trump's base is white, low IQ, not every well educated, naive, racist and xenophobic. The "refugees" are now a convenient "target" for them, to blame all the failures in their life. Ten years ago it was the black community and "Afirmtiave Action", till they realized the blacks were not taken their jobs. Now they need a new demographic to target.


Last edited by Caller Bob on Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:01 am 
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This EO has no explanation and does absolutely nothing to make the United States safer. There's a good argument to be made that it makes it more dangerous.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:01 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I realize it makes a nice slogan for a sign, but it would be hard to make a reasonable case that it is a religious ban when Muslims from Egypt, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia, etc. aren't included.
What was the common theme of the countries that were banned though?


The president said it while running and he specifically said he was going to make exceptions for Christians.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:02 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:

If Adan and his family were not admitted into the country in 1996, what is the probability he still ends up stabbing 6 people in Minnesota?

I can play that game with any immigrant starting from the Mayflower.


That's a different discussion then, centering on whether our core values of diversity, in fact the very way this country was founded and turned into an industrial superpower, necessitate dealing with an increased risk (don't deny it is an increased risk) of fatal criminality born from a certain facet of the whole group of people that wish to live in this country.

It very well might, but you asked for the impetus of the ban, not whether actually effectuating the ban is at odds with the nation's longstanding values. A handful of people, separated by time and space, whose only common thread is a certain brand of a certain religion, all decide to murder innocent people in the Western world, abusing a facet of globalization (open immigration and asylum) as a vehicle to deliver death...that's not concerning, and shouldn't be concerning to elected officials whose bailiwick is defense and immigration (technically, "naturalization")?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:04 am 
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Since about 2013 Muslims & Christians about the same # of refugees: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... o-the-u-s/

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:05 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Chus wrote:
[Can you at least try to understand what you are complaining about?


No, I'm talking about Syria. Do a little research and find out how many Syrian refugees we've taken in since their civil war started in 2011.


The U.S. brought in 12,000 Syrian refugees since the Civil War, and 10,000 in 2016 alone.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:05 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Let's just be real here guys, political alliances aside, in the pure spirit of this "EO", you know damn well Saudi Arabi should be on that list. Nobody is going to deny that right?


Agreed

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:06 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
The sad reality, is the majority of Trump's base is white, low IQ, not every well educated, naive, racist and xenophobic. .


And yet the Dems can't outsmart them. Why is that?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:06 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:

The sad reality, is the majority of Trump's base is white, low IQ, not every well educated, naive, racist and xenophobic. The "refugees" are now a convenient "target" for them, to blame all the failures in their life. Ten years ago it was the black community and "Afirmtiave Action", till they realized the blacks were not taken their jobs. Now they need a new demographic to target.


Shots fired at Chas.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:07 am 
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Chus wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
Chus wrote:
[Can you at least try to understand what you are complaining about?


No, I'm talking about Syria. Do a little research and find out how many Syrian refugees we've taken in since their civil war started in 2011.


The U.S. brought in 12,000 Syrian refugees since the Civil War, and 10,000 in 2016 alone.


12,000 in five years is nothing. what did the rest of the world do in comparison? how many people died in the war?

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